Quintessentialist - granting feats with choices


Rules Questions


Quintessentialist:
Exemplar: Instead of bonding to the phantom of a dead soul, a quintessentialist forges her best qualities into a spiritual aspect called an exemplar, which resides in her subconscious mind at all times rather than on the Ethereal Plane. An exemplar uses the quintessentialist’s ability scores when fully manifested rather than those of a standard phantom, but otherwise advances as a phantom. The exemplar can cast any of the spiritualist’s spells while fully manifested, sharing the same spells known and spell slots, and does not suffer from the quintessentialist’s unfocused spellcasting ability.

A quintessentialist can fully manifest her exemplar as a full-round action rather than a 1-minute ritual, and she can dismiss it back into her mind as a standard action. When fully manifested, a quintessentialist can transfer any equipment she is currently wearing or carrying to her exemplar, allowing it to manifest with weapons, armor, and other equipment, but doing so removes these possessions from the quintessentialist. She can likewise grant her exemplar any feats she knows, losing access to those feats herself while the exemplar remains fully manifested. Projecting an exemplar is draining, however. A quintessentialist cannot cast any spells herself and she takes a –2 penalty to all ability scores while her exemplar is fully manifested. Every round the exemplar remains fully manifested, the quintessentialist takes 1d6 points of damage; this damage cannot be reduced or prevented in any way.

This alters phantom.

***

So let's say my Spiritualist has worked themselves up to the Improved Eldritch Heritage feat (Arcane bloodline), and wants to give out the feat line to their Exemplar during manifestation.
The benefit of having Improved Eldritch Heritage is being given either the 3rd or 9th-level power, chosen when you get the feat.

Improved Eldritch Heritage wrote:
Benefit: You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Keeping in mind that the Exemplar is a completely different creature, should it be able to choose between the two options upon getting the feat?

Since the benefit of having the feat is to make the choice, I'd argue that it should.

====

Follow-up question if the answer is "no choice":

If it can't, and the Spiritualist has chosen the 9th level power that allows you to increase your spells known, would the Exemplar be able to choose their own spells known upon getting the feat?

In this case the Exemplar is given the exact same feat, and the exact same benefits, which is to choose new spells known.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

You are sharing the feat, along with all the choices you made as part of the feat. The feat transfers with all the choices you made, no new chance of a choice exists.

The exemplar never 'gains' the feat itself, it is 'granted' the feat that the quintessentialist already has.

Sovereign Court

I see nothing in that write up that would allow the Exemplar to ignore feat requirements. Does your Exemplar have character levels to qualify for Eldritch Heritage? You could argue that the HD could count, but then does it have enough for Improved/Greater since the Phantom advances slower than the Spiritualist?

Or do we have more exact language on "granting" feats that allow you to ignore requirements somewhere?


Note that taking IEH (Arcane Bloodline), if you don't choose spells already on you spell list, you can't cast them.


@willuwontu

That's disappointing but completely reasonable.

====

@Firebug

I think the general case is that you cheat prerequisites if you're given a (specific) feat for free, and exceptions are spelled out.
But it is true that the Exemplar doesn't have "character levels", so any effect based on that probably doesn't work.

====

@Dave Justus

Alright, but in the follow-up question the Exemplar is given the exact same choices the Quintessentialist made. The difference is that the final effect is variable, even though the feat is the same.

Let's say the Spiritualist has taken the Cunning feat for extra skill ranks.
Choosing where to place those skill ranks is the end effect of taking the feat, but not the benefit. The benefit of the feat is to get extra skill ranks equal to your hit dice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm not sure how the 'end effect' is not the 'benefit.'

Cunning would be a difficult feat to use with this ability. When you 'lose the effects' which skill ranks would you lose? I would probably not allow it as a GM because it would be a mess.

But I presume you would agree that if you lent your Exemplar the cunning feat, the quintessentist would lose access to some skill ranks. Those are the same skill ranks I would expect the exemplar to gain.

When it comes down to it though, what you are trying to do is the get access to any spell trick that Paizo has quashed numerous times already when they have accidentally created a loophole. Even if I were convinced that you had found one that they hadn't closed, I wouldn't allow it if I was your GM.


Dave Justus wrote:
When it comes down to it though, what you are trying to do is the get access to any spell trick that Paizo has quashed numerous times already when they have accidentally created a loophole.

And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling FAQs!

Dave Justus wrote:
But I presume you would agree that if you lent your Exemplar the cunning feat, the quintessentist would lose access to some skill ranks. Those are the same skill ranks I would expect the exemplar to gain.

Even though those skill ranks were based on the Spiritualist's HD? (which is higher than the Exemplar's)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Wonderstell wrote:

Even though those skill ranks were based on the Spiritualist's HD? (which is higher than the Exemplar's)

It would be capped of course.

As I said though, I think this class feature and the Cunning feat are such a can of worms that I would just say that it didn't work period were it to come up.


Fair enough.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Quintessentialist - granting feats with choices All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.