Dragon Yapper / Yapping Song

Rules Questions

Hullo all,

Yapping Song says that it replaces fascinate, but doesn't that also replace Suggestion? If our Kobolds can't fascinate someone anymore, then Suggestion isn't useable, but if that's so nothing replaces the ability (unless this is some absurb power creep where Yapping Song is too strong and replaces 2 abilities).

For reference:
Yapping Song (Su) : A dragon yapper can use performance to annoy those that hear it, causing them to take a –1 penalty on attack and damage rolls (minimum 1) and a –1 penalty on saves against fear effects and charm effects as long as the dragon yapper continues performing. This penalty increases by 1 at 5th level and every 6 levels thereafter. Yapping song is a mind-affecting ability that uses audible components, but is not language-dependent. This performance replaces fascinate.

Suggestion (Sp): A bard of 6th level or higher can use his performance to make a suggestion (as per the spell) to a creature he has already fascinated (see above).


It is from the Monster Codex, so is more of a themed Archetype that was not really meant to get much mileage, (hence it may not have been looked at thoroughly or was a deliberate "stealth" limitation). As it stands your Suggestion (Sp) is not replaced but is effectively unusable - except as a prerequisite for Archetypes. I could only find three that were compatible, (inc. other factors) :

* Buccaneer.
* Demagogue.
* Sound Striker.

looking at the Kobold Yapper example he's yapping song has a listed save dc of 16. which seem odd as the ability is not mentioned to have a save.

for me it always seemed like the idea was to replace 'inspire courage' as it is the counter effect of it:
it effect attack, damage and save VS fear but has penalty instead of bonus, to enemies instead of allies and it increase at he same levels 1st,5th and every 6 levels after.

as in the Yapper can't inspire the courage of his allies but can instead make his enemies angry.

Thanks for replies. I get the flavour, but I didn't know that these were less perfected abilities for monsters. If Yapper is like an "anti-bard" then you could imagine they'd "Infuriate" instead of Suggestion, like "the target of yapping makes a Will save or absolutely will do a thing you tell them NOT to, ala reverse psychology."

I'll just take it as ask your GM and hope they're nice =}

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