My character is a level 13 soldier equipped with an IMDS Missile Launcher, which is a heavy weapon.
I have loaded it with a Tactical Missile, which has the special property explode (6d8 B&P; 30ft)
Does this missile gain damage from Weapon Specialization?
Sure. Specialization not applying is a specificity of grenades, as per the feat. The explosive property doesn't matter here.
Should we have non-explosive yet damaging grenades, they wouldn't benefit either.
Missiles and other explosives, otoh, get the bonus just fine.
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I don't think so. I don't have the book on hand, so I looked it up on the starjammer website and found this.
Weapons-See Weapon Proficiency in Tactical Rules for more information on how proficiency affects you. When you reach 3rd level in that class, you also gain Weapon Specialization (as per the feat) in those weapons, which allows you to add your class level to your damage rolls with those weapons (see Weapon Specialization for more information). Grenades, missiles, and other consumable weapons never add specialization damage, even when you’re using weapons like a cyberbow or grenade launcher.
This is in the class description section, but if you really need a page number on the CRB, I can provide that later if no one else does.
Ah, I see it now.
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Huh.
The feat is worded quite differently, for some reason, with grenades being the one specific exclusion.
Benefit: Choose one weapon type (small arms, longarms, heavy weapons, etc.). You gain specialization in that weapon type, which means you add your character level to damage with the selected weapon type, or half your character level for small arms or operative melee weapons. You can never have specialization in grenades.
I don't know why missiles wouldn't get specialization when other explode weapons do. Nor do I see how a missile is more of a "consumable" than a bullet. That's what trips me up here.
Missiles have higher enough damage that I don't mind that much, but seems unclear.Edit : Wait, assuming missiles are "consumables" because they're the ones that set the damage and effect, rather than the weapon itself, what does that mean for other special ammunition, like the diamon-edge and molecular rift arrows ?
How about other special ammo, like the phasing rounds and the explosive everything?
huh... that does raise the question.
Regarding the feat only mentioning grenades, I assumed that was just to avoid having to say "or missiles fired by heavy weapons (even though other heavy weapons are fine".
However, the specific rule for missiles is located in the class description section, not the equipment or feat section, which is an odd place to have a specific item rule.
The concerns you raise about rounds and arrows, makes me wonder if the class section rule is a holdover that was supposed to be removed.
After all, missiles are *expensive*, take extra time to load, require heavy weapon proficiency, and deal damage on par with other heavy weapons if weapon specialization isn't included.
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I'm actually quite fine with missiles not getting specialization, mind you.
I think.
Their base damage is way above other comparable weapons of similar levels. They take a big hit everywhere else to compensate, from needing to reload every shot, to the 1 Bulk each (oof), the price etc... and I honestly have no idea if that's just fine or too high a cost. Looks okay ? A niche weapon for when you need the one huge hit ?
My issues are with this whole "consumable weapons" thing.
As in : What does That mean ?
If missiles are consumables, what else qualifies ?
Only one out of five missiles has the explode property, so that's irrelevant - but it brings the arrows into question.
They (can) define the damage, like the missiles, and are single use as well. How do they behave ? And if they behave differently, why?
What about the more "standard" options, like the phasing and explosive projectiles ?
We're only going to get more specialized ammunition as time goes, I'd like to know how to handle them.
I kind of hope for either :
- the removal of the "and other consumable weapons" bit from the rules text - and the addition of missiles to the feat's, (new future weapon types can add similar information in their own description),
- an explanation of what is and isn't a "consumable weapon".
- or hell, just make up a weapon property for it. "weapons with this property never add specialization damage". Built-in future proofing.
Just to put some numbers down...
Advanced Missile: level 13,13d8 b&f (avg 58.5), 14,600 credits
X-gen gun elite: level 13, 4d12 p (avg 39 w/spec), 53,700 credits + AUTOMATIC!
frag grenade mk5: level 14, explode 10d6 (avg 35), 18,750 credits
So, Yeah, missiles have more damage than a single shot from an at-level heavy weapon, although that heavy weapon has a magazine of 100 rounds and could fire 3 times a round at that level. Kind of disappointing considering the cost per shot of the missiles.
Grenades are still woefully terrible. A missile looks like the stats I'd want grenades to have.
I never realized until now that advanced missiles are not an AoE. I thought it was a typo, but it seems like it's intentional.
I agree, they are very expensive for what they are capable of. I guess they're good for low level NPCs/PCs, like using them while mounted on military vehicles and whatnot. I can't imagine why an equivalent level PC would use it, however.
They're a "use them if you loot them" weapon, I guess, since that's effectively 10% cost.
Well, use them if you loot them and happen to by carrying a missile launcher!
Well, use them if you loot them and happen to by carrying a missile launcher!
I'd think in most situations if you loot a missile, you also loot a launcher, but I suppose it's not always.
Well, use them if you loot them and happen to by carrying a missile launcher!I'd think in most situations if you loot a missile, you also loot a launcher, but I suppose it's not always.
That's fair. I was picturing a randomly generated hoard for some reason.
My issues are with this whole "consumable weapons" thing.
As in : What does That mean ?If missiles are consumables, what else qualifies ?
Only one out of five missiles has the explode property, so that's irrelevant - but it brings the arrows into question.
They (can) define the damage, like the missiles, and are single use as well. How do they behave ? And if they behave differently, why?
What about the more "standard" options, like the phasing and explosive projectiles ?We're only going to get more specialized ammunition as time goes, I'd like to know how to handle them.
I kind of hope for either :
- the removal of the "and other consumable weapons" bit from the rules text - and the addition of missiles to the feat's, (new future weapon types can add similar information in their own description),
- an explanation of what is and isn't a "consumable weapon".
- or hell, just make up a weapon property for it. "weapons with this property never add specialization damage". Built-in future proofing.
I stumbled across this thread out of the blue and found this to be a very good question, having not noticed the difference between only grenades being exempt from weapon specialization versus all "consumable weapons" - so I wanted to bump this thread in the hopes of getting more eyes on it.
(If that doesn't work, maybe we should consider starting a new thread for that question in and of itself?)
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Well, use them if you loot them and happen to by carrying a missile launcher!I'd think in most situations if you loot a missile, you also loot a launcher, but I suppose it's not always.
"Yeah Bob, take your.. uhm.. Club and go hit those guys on the head. I'll cover you from behind that steel door "