Has anyone found a way to simulate a maze that changes and shifts as the players progress through it that doesn't include a ton of re-drawing?
I'm knocking around a few ideas, but my goal is to present something easy to comprehend and that runs smoothly. The less time I habe to pause the game to explain how it works or to figure it out myself, the better.
Maybe you can go with something like House on the Hill...
...Depending on which VTT you use, you can have the map be made of token. Which means you can move, scale, rotate, or just make it appear/disappear (dynamic lighting helps)
That's exactly what I was thinking; good ol' Betrayal. It would be fairly easy to move stuff around. Maybe even flip tiles over for more variation.
I'm not familiar with demiplane rules or even what a VTT is, but that's okay. I don't use much in the way of source material; I was mainly looking for ideas on the practical, physical aspect of the map, rather than anything in-game.
There won't be any need to "solve" the maze in the traditional sense. It's just part of an encounter that will most likely involve combat and even more likely a lot of running away. The maze should add to the eerie, faerie-haunted tone (like Pan's Labyrinth) and some serious tension in terms of combat/escape.
Ideally, I'd want to do rotating concentric rings for the look of it, but I just don't know if I can pull that off.
Shifting mazes aren't very common. At least I've never seen one in published material. I do see quite a few dungeons that rely on teleporters to connect the various unconnected sections.
Yeah, I've run a few like that in the past. It just falls short of what I'm going for here. Something wild and strange, wondrous and disturbing.
One suggestion I'll make for a shifting maze is to draw two mazes...it could be very confusing.
Again, I'm not trying to create a puzzle to confound my players, just add an element to further dramatic tension and narrative tone.
Last 'rule' would be that you need to hit a different colored section to trigger a shift.
Again, I'm not looking for in-game mechanics. That can be as simple as "1d4-1 changes occur every 1d3 rounds". Maybe I'm not being clear: what I've struggled with in this regard is how to display a map of such an area without re-drawing it over and over. I'm looking more for any ideas regarding the hardware with which we play the game, and less how to play it.
Instead of drawing a map for the players, you might want to make paper cut outs to represent sections of the map and only reveal what they can see.
When I want to focus on the act of discovery, I have a big piece of felt with a circle cut out of the center. The circle is, on a 1" grid, equal to the radius of a torch's light.
So the reason behind using cut outs where you only show the sections the players are currently in is because you don't want to draw the sections they have already explored.
The only way the party is going to know its different than before is if they notice.
Of course you using this brand new method is going to make them suspicious.
I think I see the disconnect, here.
I fully plan on letting them in on the fact that the maze moves and shifts right away; they'll hear the distant rumble of grinding stone, like earthbound thunder. Then they'll see the corridors stretch and twist like a great stone dragon stirring in it's fitful sleep.Discovery and exploration are vital parts of my games, but this encounter is designed to be too hectic and too (seemingly) complex for either of those elements to come into play.
If the act of drawing is the bottleneck, don't draw the map. Either represent the shifting elements with something that can be more quickly manipulated, like dungeon tiles or premade segments . . . or kick it oldschool and don't use a map at all.
there was an old AD&D moudle 'Island of Castanamir ' that had an interesting 'maze' mechanic. all rooms had 4 portals (north,south,east,west) and taking a portal moved you to a different room in a specific pattern. until the players learn how the pattern work moving between rooms was very hectic.
also the way to leave the first floor was hidden in a nasty way so players could end up wasting days or months in it looking for the exit..
VTT is virtual table top (aka roll20 and the like).
Oh, okay. I'm familiar with those, but this group is in person.
The Demiplane rules are thing from the create demiplane spell and planar traits.
I don't tend to use rule systes like that; I usually want to keep things of that scope in the "too immense and hopelessly complex to evert understand" category, and when I do need some sort of system, it's almost always a few simple rules that suit my purposes in that one specific situation.
For physical version, you can create a deck of different segments/rooms. When the area change triggers you can add new segments from the top, and remove any old/far segment placing them at the bottom of the deck.
Yes, exactly. I think this will be the way I'm going.
Multiple cards that match edge-to-edge is the easy way to do it. I swear there's a board game where you do something similar.
Yeah, this seems like the easiest way to go. I was thinking of "Betrayal at House on the Hill", but I wanted to see if anyone had any other (possibly more elegant or visually appealing) methods that had worked well in the past.
Any size grid that lets you easily roll dice
Again, not worried about how to mechanically implement it. I'll most likely roll a die here and there to give the illusion of randomness.
If the act of drawing is the bottleneck, don't draw the map. Either represent the shifting elements with something that can be more quickly manipulated, like dungeon tiles or premade segments . . . or kick it oldschool and don't use a map at all.
While there are plenty of times I don't use a map, I think Pathfinder just loses some of its technical precision without a grid in a lot of situations. Especially combat. Plus as I mentioned before, players seem to get something from a good ad a sort of visualization tool.
I'll be making the dungeon elements on cardstock and assembling/rearranging them as needed. Now...anyone know where I can get fairly heavy cardstock with a 1" grid on it?
I'll be making the dungeon elements on cardstock and assembling/rearranging them as needed. Now...anyone know where I can get fairly heavy cardstock with a 1" grid on it?
Index cards could be used instead. They are already lined horizontally, so just add some verticals as needed. Cut square or fold the excess. You only need to draw the vertical parts you have, not the whole grid. The scale does not matter if not exactly 1". If you have a 3x5 index card, it becomes a 3x3 dungeon tile.
/cevah
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I ended up with quite a few 6×6 tiles that shifted about every 1-3 rounds.
The players only spent about a turn trying to "figure out" the puzzle when they realized it was entirely random. Or rather, that the labyrinth was alive and actively helping the monsters contained within.
It was a close call in the extreme; spells and healing all but spent, two of three characters a round from certain death and the third fairing only marginally better.
The fact that the terrain itself couldn't be trusted added a layer of tension and desperation to the encounter that was just perfect.
Thank you for all the input.