Fey sorcerer

[Staffan Johansson]

So, I made a fey sorcerer last night because we're trying the new game out, and that seemed like a cool thing. But I'm wondering if I haven't made a mistake, or if there's something I'm missing.

First, their initial Bloodline spell is faerie dust, which has a Will save and gives targets in a small area a penalty on Perception checks and Will saves for one round. That is admittedly thematic, but the question I ask myself is "Why am I casting a spell that lets my target roll a save to avoid a short-term debuff to the next spell I'm going to cast, when I could instead just cast the spell I really want to hit them with?" Sure, negating reactions can be nice as well, but it still seems redundant. And giving them a penalty to Perception seems redundant on a short-range, short-duration spell with verbal components.

Second, their Blood Magic ability is to put on a small lightshow that provides concealment whenever they cast one of their granted spells or bloodline spells using a Focus point or a spell slot. Again, that's fairly thematic, except a large portion of their spells are ones that benefit from subtlety: charm, enthrall, mislead, and the like. This seems counter-productive, particularly since Blood Magic doesn't seem to be optional.

Edit: I'll note that Blood Magic (in that form) wasn't a thing in the playtest version, and the playtest version of [i]faerie dust[i] didn't affect Will saves, and put the targets to sleep on a critical failure.

[Xenocrat]

The good things about Faerie Dust are (1) it is a single action, so it can be cast first to hopefully soften someone up for your follow up spell in the same round, and (2) it has an area, so you can hopefully soften up at least some of the targets of any multitarget follow up. Your GM might even let you spot those who succumb to Faerie Dust so you can deliberately target them if your follow up spell is single target.

I noticed the problem with the blood magic myself. Charm (1), Enthrall(3), and Resplendaent Mansion(9) aren't likely to be cast in combat where it helps, and it's somewhat redundant with Cloak of Colors(5) except against ranged attacks and entirely redundant with Mislead(6).

But it works fine with Faerie Dust, which you should be using to soften people up prior to your follow up spell, and it can cover for you on Fey Disappearance if you break your invisibility before your turn is over. And it's still useful on your 2, 4, 5 (partially), 7, and 8 level spells.

[Staffan Johansson]

Xenocrat wrote:

The good things about Faerie Dust are (1) it is a single action, so it can be cast first to hopefully soften someone up for your follow up spell in the same round, and (2) it has an area, so you can hopefully soften up at least some of the targets of any multitarget follow up. Your GM might even let you spot those who succumb to Faerie Dust so you can deliberately target them if your follow up spell is single target.

My problem with Faerie Dust is that if they fail the save, they would have failed the save against the follow-up spell instead.

[Arachnofiend]

Weird thing about the Fey bloodline is that because it gives you the Primal list your options for enchantment spells are pretty limited, mostly just the ones that you get from the bloodline itself.

You know what the Primal spell list is great at? Blasting. You can make some very sparkly fireballs.

[Xenocrat]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

The good things about Faerie Dust are (1) it is a single action, so it can be cast first to hopefully soften someone up for your follow up spell in the same round, and (2) it has an area, so you can hopefully soften up at least some of the targets of any multitarget follow up. Your GM might even let you spot those who succumb to Faerie Dust so you can deliberately target them if your follow up spell is single target.

My problem with Faerie Dust is that if they fail the save, they would have failed the save against the follow-up spell instead.

I can’t help you with your superstitions.

[masda_gib]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

The good things about Faerie Dust are (1) it is a single action, so it can be cast first to hopefully soften someone up for your follow up spell in the same round, and (2) it has an area, so you can hopefully soften up at least some of the targets of any multitarget follow up. Your GM might even let you spot those who succumb to Faerie Dust so you can deliberately target them if your follow up spell is single target.

My problem with Faerie Dust is that if they fail the save, they would have failed the save against the follow-up spell instead.

Like Xenocrat said, you can try to soften them up with Faerie Dust before using your precious spell slot. Focus grows back after combat, spell slots don't. Also if they fail their save, it's the perfect time for all other party members to bomb them with will save effects, too.

[Eoni]

You gotta remember, you're not just softening them up for your next spell but also your ally's next spell or Demoralize/Feint check

[Staffan Johansson]

Xenocrat wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

My problem with Faerie Dust is that if they fail the save, they would have failed the save against the follow-up spell instead.

I can’t help you with your superstitions.

Superstitions?

I'm telling the GM: "Roll a Will save." If the GM fails, the effect can either be "Something bad happens to you" or "Roll another Will save at -2 or something bad will happen to you." I think the latter effect is strictly inferior to the first.

There are many ways in which Faerie Dust could be made into something useful, such as:

• The save could be Fortitude or Reflex, which would let me leverage a poor save for a bonus on a good one.
  
• The duration could be longer, but at a 1-round duration I will at the most have time to cast one spell.
  
• The effect could be stronger - preferably with an effect even on a successful save.
  
• If it didn't have a verbal component, it could be useful for sneaking past someone.

Compare it to other sorcerer bloodline spells:

• Ancestral Memories - become trained in a skill for one minute.
  
• Angelic Halo - a bonus to healing for one minute.
  
• Diabolic Edict - give an ally a +1 bonus to attacks and skills for one round, assuming they do what you say.
  
• Dragon Claws - Resistance 5 to an element and a fairly strong melee attack for a minute.
  
• Elemental Toss - a fairly weak attack, at least at low level (not sure how well it scales).
  
• Glutton's Jaws - a fairly strong melee attack that can help mitigate damage.
  
• Jealous Hex - target becomes worse at what they're good at, even if they succeed on their save, for up to one minute.
  
• Tentacular Limbs - Lets you cast touch spells at double the range or quadruple the range for one minute.
  
• Touch of Undeath - lets you heal a target using Harm for a minute.

The closest equivalents are Diabolic Edict and Jealous Hex. But both of these have a certainty Faerie Dust does not have - Diabolic Edict is a buff to an ally instead of a debuff on an enemy, and Jealous Hex inflicts a penalty condition even on a successful save, though you don't get to choose to what (but debuffing your foe's best stat is rarely a bad thing).

My understanding is that Focus spells are supposed to be reasonably powerful, and something you're likely to use in every encounter. I definitely don't think Faerie Dust fills that niche. I'm not even sure it'd be worth it as a cantrip.

[Arachnofiend]

The idea with that focus spell isn't that it makes it more likely for the enemy to fail, it is that it makes it more likely for the enemy to critically fail.

[Paradozen]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Weird thing about the Fey bloodline is that because it gives you the Primal list your options for enchantment spells are pretty limited, mostly just the ones that you get from the bloodline itself.

You know what the Primal spell list is great at? Blasting. You can make some very sparkly fireballs.

You say faerie fire, I say faerie fire.

[Xenocrat]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

My problem with Faerie Dust is that if they fail the save, they would have failed the save against the follow-up spell instead.

I can’t help you with your superstitions.

Superstitions?

I'm telling the GM: "Roll a Will save." If the GM fails, the effect can either be "Something bad happens to you" or "Roll another Will save at -2 or something bad will happen to you." I think the latter effect is strictly inferior to the first.

That's illogical superstition. The dice have no memory. Your "real" spell unquestionably has a higher percentage of success by casting Faerie Dust first.

Here's an identical mechanical effect that might help you see why you're wrong:

1. Declare that you are casting Faerie Dust (1 action) followed by another spell (2 actions). Expend the resources and actions.

2. First, resolve the save for your second, 2 action spell. Record the results.

3. Second, resolve the save for Faerie Dust. For those who fail Faerie Dust, reduce their result by -2 on the previous spell, adjusting success to failure, and failure to critical failure.

That's exactly equivalent mathematically to running it in the correct order. You aren't "wasting" a failed Faerie Dust save by rolling it first, because it's a random number generator. Believing anything else is superstition or statistical ignorance.

[baahk36]

As has been mentioned before, faerie dust isn't just benefiting you. It helps with any other will saves or perception checks forced on the monster(s) by the rest of your party.

Heck if you can get it off right before a fight starts you've sunk their initiative roll in most cases.

But the thing I actually think is best about the spell is that it takes away reactions. This is huge since reactions are more than just attacks of opportunity now. They include things now like counterspelling, stopping movement, and reducing damage. All these things can make or break a fight and for one action not only are you potentially setting up your next spell to succeed but denying the enemy of whatever defensive technique it might have been counting on to live to its next turn.

On top of all that the spell is very thematic in capturing the elusive nature of the get so +1 for flavor.

[Ventnor]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Weird thing about the Fey bloodline is that because it gives you the Primal list your options for enchantment spells are pretty limited, mostly just the ones that you get from the bloodline itself.

You know what the Primal spell list is great at? Blasting. You can make some very sparkly fireballs.

Sometimes, faeries of the Summer Court have to make summer a little more... intense.