The second page of the character sheet is useless

[WatersLethe]

The more I think about the second page of the character sheet, the more I think it doesn't make sense. Comparing the class feature table to the one on the character sheet makes me wonder what exactly is supposed to go where.

Look at the Rogue class features: initial proficiencies, rogue’s racket, sneak attack 1d6, surprise attack, rogue feat, skill feat

Okay, leave out the initial proficiencies and the racket (even those are super important and don't get listed elsewhere on the sheet) we still have two lines to list sneak attack, surprise attack, and a bonus skill feat. There's no level 1 skill feat slot for the rogue's bonus skill feats, nor is there a spot for the extras gained at other levels.

Every other class has too much going on to fit neatly either. There's also no neat place to list skill increases. If it's going for clearness and helping a new player step through a character, then it does a poor job because it appears to gloss over lots of little important things.

It just seems like a lined sheet of paper beats out the numbered boxes in usability in every regard.

[Edge93]

I mean, aside from 1st level taking a little cramming, is that really the case? Aside from proficiency increases, which be noted on the main sheet, you don't get more than one class feature or feat per level, or if you do it's really rare, so the single line per level was always fine for me.

And for Rogue skill feats, IDK about anyone else but I just write two per line, fits fine.

That said, the character-specific sheets probably fix things like Rogue skill feat spots.

[Azurespark]

Yes, the class specific sheets do improve things. There is enough space for everything, including all of the rogues skill feats. But all of this stuff just doesn't fit that well on the standard sheet.

There is one thing under the "Ancestry Feats and Abilities" section that bugs me. What do you write in the "Special 1st" and Heritage 1st" boxes? The only thing I can think of, is that it's for the extra human feats.

[AnCap Dawg]

I found it more useful than the 3rd sheet.

I'm mildly disappointed in the spell sheet. I honestly can't figure out what all the boxes in the "spell slots per day" section are for. And I would have preferred putting innate spells and focus spells somewhere else so non-casters wouldn't use the whole sheet for those little sections. I don't think the magic traditions is needed at all and I wish cantrips were just lumped in with spells in general.

I'm sure there will be a plethora of fan-made sheets in the near future.

EDIT: Just noticed the "spontaneous spell slots remaining" note. Probably would have figured it out if I were making a sorcerer or bard.

[Edge93]

Azurespark wrote:

Yes, the class specific sheets do improve things. There is enough space for everything, including all of the rogues skill feats. But all of this stuff just doesn't fit that well on the standard sheet.

There is one thing under the "Ancestry Feats and Abilities" section that bugs me. What do you write in the "Special 1st" and Heritage 1st" boxes? The only thing I can think of, is that it's for the extra human feats.

Special 1st is probably for something like Darkvision or Keen Eyes, stuff that's not from your Heritage or Feats.

[Azurespark]

Just noticed that the fighter sheet doesn't give you any space for class feats at levels 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16. The alchemist sheets say you get light armor master at 20, when it should be 19. And I'm sure there are other errors I'm not aware of.

Also there no black and white versions of these class specific sheets. So I would hold off on buying them until these issues are fixed.

[Malckuss76]

Azurespark wrote:

Just noticed that the fighter sheet doesn't give you any space for class feats at levels 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16. The alchemist sheets say you get light armor master at 20, when it should be 19. And I'm sure there are other errors I'm not aware of.

Also there no black and white versions of these class specific sheets. So I would hold off on buying them until these issues are fixed.

The biggest legitimate (to my admittedly biased mind) complaints I have heard so far all have to do with the character sheets,either aesthetically or regarding utility. With the layout of the book catching so much praise, I find this strange. What was wrong with the way the playtest sheet was set up?

[Azurespark]

Malckuss76 wrote:

Azurespark wrote:

Just noticed that the fighter sheet doesn't give you any space for class feats at levels 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16. The alchemist sheets say you get light armor master at 20, when it should be 19. And I'm sure there are other errors I'm not aware of.

Also there no black and white versions of these class specific sheets. So I would hold off on buying them until these issues are fixed.

The biggest legitimate (to my admittedly biased mind) complaints I have heard so far all have to do with the character sheets,either aesthetically or regarding utility. With the layout of the book catching so much praise, I find this strange. What was wrong with the way the playtest sheet was set up?

The only thing I don't like about the playtest sheet, is that it's in landscape view. So I guess they moved things around to fit portrait view.

[viemexis]

AnCap Dawg wrote:

I don't think the magic traditions is needed at all and I wish cantrips were just lumped in with spells in general.

I'm sure there will be a plethora of fan-made sheets in the near future.

Did someone mention fan sheets? The simplified spell sheet on the character sheet I made might be to your liking.

[Rysky]

viemexis wrote:

AnCap Dawg wrote:

I don't think the magic traditions is needed at all and I wish cantrips were just lumped in with spells in general.

I'm sure there will be a plethora of fan-made sheets in the near future.

Did someone mention fan sheets? The simplified spell sheet on the character sheet I made might be to your liking.

Nice!

[WatersLethe]

viemexis wrote:

AnCap Dawg wrote:

I don't think the magic traditions is needed at all and I wish cantrips were just lumped in with spells in general.

I'm sure there will be a plethora of fan-made sheets in the near future.

Did someone mention fan sheets? The simplified spell sheet on the character sheet I made might be to your liking.

Vie, are you a professional graphic designer or something?

[AnCap Dawg]

viemexis wrote:

AnCap Dawg wrote:

I don't think the magic traditions is needed at all and I wish cantrips were just lumped in with spells in general.

I'm sure there will be a plethora of fan-made sheets in the near future.

Did someone mention fan sheets? The simplified spell sheet on the character sheet I made might be to your liking.

It is! Very much so. Thank you.

[viemexis]

WatersLethe wrote:

Vie, are you a professional graphic designer or something?

Thanks for noticing. I design software interfaces for a living.

[MaxAstro]

The second page is woefully insufficient for rogues, but from what I've seen every other class seems to fit into it pretty neatly.

[graystone]

viemexis wrote:

AnCap Dawg wrote:

I don't think the magic traditions is needed at all and I wish cantrips were just lumped in with spells in general.

I'm sure there will be a plethora of fan-made sheets in the near future.

Did someone mention fan sheets? The simplified spell sheet on the character sheet I made might be to your liking.

*two thumbs up* Nice! Simple, clean and looks good in black and white. I'd buy this over the official sheets. Thanks! ;)