I am looking for a ruling on using a Longsword with Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace. The Weapon Finesse feat states it is valid on Light Weapons or the rapier, whip, or spiked chain.
"You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls."
However, Slashing Grace specifically calls out the Longsword as a weapon it can be used with.
"Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.
Benefit: When you take this feat, choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike), and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied."
So, are you able to apply your DEX mode to attacks AND damage while using a Longsword? Or just to your damage?
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Weapon Finesse + Slashing Grace only gets you Dex Mod to damage with a longsword. You need Swashbuckler Finesse + Slashing Grace to get Dex Mod to both attacks and damage with a longsword, so you would need to dip a level in Swashbuckler.
Here is the breakdown for getting Dex Mod to attack and damage with Slashing Grace.
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Slashing Grace with Weapon Finesse
Light (Simple)
Brass Knife, Dagger, Hook Hand, Sickle
Light (Martial)
Boarding Axe, Butterfly Sword, Cat-o'-nine-tails, Dogslicer, Gladius, Handaxe, Kerambit, Kobold Tail Attachment (long lash), Kobold Tail Attachment (razored), Kukri, Lungchuan Tamo, Machete, Sea-knife, Shang Gou, Tailblade (ratfolk), Throwing Axe, War Razor
Light (Exotic)
Barbazu Beard, Bich'hwa, Butterfly Knife, Dwarven Maulaxe, Fighting Fan, Kama, Knuckle Axe, Rope Gauntlet, Scorpion Whip, Sica, Swordbreaker Dagger, Wakizashi
One-handed (Exotic)
Aldori Dueling Sword, Whip
Slashing Grace with Swashbuckler Finesse (all of the above plus the following)
One-handed (Martial)
Battleaxe, Combat Scabbard, Cutlass, Double Chicken Saber, Gandasa, Klar, Longsword, Manople, Nine Ring Broadsword, Scimitar, Sibat, Terbutje, Terbutje (Steel)
One-handed (Exotic)
Bastard Sword, Dwarven Double Waraxe, Dwarven Waraxe, Falcata, Hooked Axe, Katana, Khopesh, Rhoka, Sawtoothed Sabre, Temple Sword, Urumi
Yeah, you see they gave the swashbuckler a class feature of extra feats, and then made a feat meant just for them, but lets other take it if they are crazy enough to want to.
Of course, both Fencing Grace and Starry Grace work with Weapon Finesse. Numerically speaking, with its slightly larger threat range, a Rapier is roughly equal to a Longword wielded one-handed.
So, Slashing Grace/Weapon Finesse will not get you the bonus to Hit/Damage with a Longsword, but it will with a Rapier.
My Bard/Investigator shall wield a Rapier then.
Thanks for the clarification.
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So, Slashing Grace/Weapon Finesse will not get you the bonus to Hit/Damage with a Longsword, but it will with a Rapier.
My Bard/Investigator shall wield a Rapier then.
Thanks for the clarification.
For a rapier you need Fencing Grace, not Slashing Grace. For an Investigator, a rapier is normally better than a longsword since a longsword doesn't qualify for the Inspired weapon special ability.
For a rapier you need Fencing Grace, not Slashing Grace. For an Investigator, a rapier is normally better than a longsword since a longsword doesn't qualify for the Inspired weapon special ability.So, Slashing Grace/Weapon Finesse will not get you the bonus to Hit/Damage with a Longsword, but it will with a Rapier.
My Bard/Investigator shall wield a Rapier then.
Thanks for the clarification.
I personally love the Red Mage-y feel of rapier wielders, so I'm all about the Fencing Grace chain. In addition to the benefits above, don't forget that not only do you not have to take a level in Swashbuckler, you also have a nice 18-20 base crit range to work with. All can go online at level 5, regardless of if you use Variant Attack Bonus or not (if going Bard/Investigator).
EDIT: Also, if using that multi class, I would highly suggest asking about using Unchained's Variant Bonus system. 3/4 BAB classes hurt when you want to focus on combat and don't multi class with a full BAB class.
I think what may be causing your confusion is the Swashbuckler's swashbuckler finesse class feature
At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons. {snip} This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
This expands the list of weapons to which Weapon Finesse can be applied.
The longsword works, as it is treated as a one handed piercing weapon with Slashing Grace, and so qualifies to use Dex to Hit with swashbuckler finesse while the Dex to Damage comes from Slashing Grace itself.
For the rapier, regular Weapon Finesse or Swashbuckler Finesse will work for Dex to Hit, but you need Fencing Grace for Dex to Damage.
Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (rapier).
Benefit(s): When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied.
In addition, if you have the panache class feature, you gain a +2 bonus to your CMD against attempts to disarm you of your rapier while you have at least 1 panache point.
Slashing Grace would not work, as a rapier is piercing and Slashing Grace requires a slashing weapon.