So when 2e comes out I am gonna run fall of Plaguestone with my group to see if they like 2e. If so I may try converting my 1e RotR game over. My main question is do we think levels are about equivalent? My group is currently level 9 about halfway through book 3. Would a converted group be 9th as well?
Although the real fun part for this group will be trying to convert the Investigator/Fighter/Monk and homebrewing Leadership somehow for the cleric.
Yah with RotR even the anniversary edition most npcs are pretty vanilla about class so should be easy to convert and again the majority of the monsters are bestiry 1 or 2. The harder part I think would be converting unique magic items like Sihedron medalions and rings.
developers have commented on other threads that for most monster you just grab the one from P2 instead of P1. Like, if the P1 AP says you fight an Ogre, just grab the P2 Ogre instead and it should be fine. They tried to convert monster CR to monster level on a 1 for 1 basis, with very few exceptions.
The only thing to keep in mind is the DC for skill checks will need to be converted as DCs all sccale by level more directly in P2.
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APs don't seem to rely on things like being able to cast certain spells anyway, since they should be built with variance in party composition in mind.
I believe the APs are built under the idea of the 4 basic classes : Fighter, Wizard, Cleric and Rogue.
And some spells are nigh required in some AP encounters. Remove Blindness springs to mind.
Loot will probably be the hardest thing to convert, but it still isn't that difficult.
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Loot will probably be the hardest thing to convert, but it still isn't that difficult.
A number of people (Like, I believe, Mark Seifter) who have done AP conversion have said it's usually simpler to just rebuild the loot using PF2 rules than to update it from PF1
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Loot will probably be the hardest thing to convert, but it still isn't that difficult.A number of people (Like, I believe, Mark Seifter) who have done AP conversion have said it's usually simpler to just rebuild the loot using PF2 rules than to update it from PF1
That's the most promising thing I've heard in ages. One of the things I didn't particularly like about 3.x was the magic item pricing. Things like stat boosters were clear, and sensible. But a huge amount of other gear has a price-to-performance ratio that was brutal.
For a mere half of your wealth-by-level at 10th, you can have <imaginary item> which lets you once per day attempt to do <awesome thing>. Will DC 13 negates.
I mean, by the time you can afford these items, you're almost always better off taking the Total Defense action instead of burning a standard action trying to activate the item and watch is inevitably get blocked by SR or stopped by a successful saving throw.
So if PF2 has revisited level-appropriateness (beyond what was done in the playtest) so things are moved around, then there's hope.
Loot will probably be the hardest thing to convert, but it still isn't that difficult.A number of people (Like, I believe, Mark Seifter) who have done AP conversion have said it's usually simpler to just rebuild the loot using PF2 rules than to update it from PF1
In my own conversion experience, magic items tend to convert just fine, whether you're simply replacing a PF1 item with a PF2 equivalent or creating the PF2 version yourself. Item levels make it really easy to find the most appropriate thing to slot in.
Awards in gold amounts are a little harder because APs don't strictly follow WBL guidelines so much as put more than WBL into it and assume the PCs won't find it all. I'm running 3 different converted playtest campaigns and trying out a different method for handling coinage in each one.
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For a mere half of your wealth-by-level at 10th, you can have <imaginary item> which lets you once per day attempt to do <awesome thing>. Will DC 13 negates.
In PF2, that item would flagrantly violate the design guidelines for items due to its low DC.
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I was actually struggling tonight to figure out what to do with the Medusa's Mask in Rise of the Runelords on a conversion. That thing sticks out like a sore thumb. An 11th level item dropped by a 9th level boss against a 7th level party. If it had an appropriate DC, a la PF2 items, that Flesh to Stone effect would decimate enemies for a long time to come, and it would be nearly impossible to dispel and what have you.
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I was actually struggling tonight to figure out what to do with the Medusa's Mask in Rise of the Runelords on a conversion. That thing sticks out like a sore thumb. An 11th level item dropped by a 9th level boss against a 7th level party. If it had an appropriate DC, a la PF2 items, that Flesh to Stone effect would decimate enemies for a long time to come, and it would be nearly impossible to dispel and what have you.
Worse than that, it's probably be a 13th level item with a killer DC that made foes quake in fear and humbled even bosses. But that's fitting if you decide to drop an item that casts a spell two levels higher than the PCs' best, that's like giving them disintegrate at that point. It's weird to give them that spell but then "balance" it by making it always fail.
Does the user wear the mask ? I assume not
Because if it does that is another wrinkle where a level 7 party would be decimated by it and never get a chance to earn it
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I was actually struggling tonight to figure out what to do with the Medusa's Mask in Rise of the Runelords on a conversion. That thing sticks out like a sore thumb. An 11th level item dropped by a 9th level boss against a 7th level party. If it had an appropriate DC, a la PF2 items, that Flesh to Stone effect would decimate enemies for a long time to come, and it would be nearly impossible to dispel and what have you.Worse than that, it's probably be a 13th level item with a killer DC that made foes quake in fear and humbled even bosses. But that's fitting if you decide to drop an item that casts a spell two levels higher than the PCs' best, that's like giving them disintegrate at that point. It's weird to give them that spell but then "balance" it by making it always fail.
You might consider making it a paralysis or stunning effect with a "flesh to stone" cosmetic description rather than a full-on petrification. That might allow you to bring its effect down to something more reasonable.
If you use the AP as written, with the listed monster stats either in the AP or PF1 bestiary then there is no equivalent. Numbers inflation in PF1 was huge in comparison to PF2.
If you do as others suggest and pull the equivalent monster from PF2 bestiary and convert special monsters (which will take some work) then it's probably the same level for level.
Does the user wear the mask ? I assume not
Because if it does that is another wrinkle where a level 7 party would be decimated by it and never get a chance to earn it
Yeah, the boss is meant to use it on the PCs. Which was another tough moment-- It got used on the party wizard and the bard burned a 4th level dispel magic and a hero point trying to end the spell before the petrification fully set in. The DC for an 11th level item would be 26, which the bard hit on the reroll... Except that a 6th level spell would add a -10 penalty to the 4th level dispel slot. Which is impossible for the bard to hit with his +11 spell roll.
I wound up letting the bard save his wizard boyfriend, and after discussing my dilemma with the group we decided to have them sell the mask for a bounty to the Church of Abadar to be destroyed. An 11th level item usually retails for about 1400 gp, so they took half of that to invest in upgrading their weapons and armor rather than have this once per day unbalancing spell.
If I run this encounter again, I will probably just replace it with a 6th level Demon Mask. It doesn't fit the boss's snake motif as well but it is very desirable and is level appropriate.
Does the user wear the mask ? I assume not
Because if it does that is another wrinkle where a level 7 party would be decimated by it and never get a chance to earn itYeah, the boss is meant to use it on the PCs. Which was another tough moment-- It got used on the party wizard and the bard burned a 4th level dispel magic and a hero point trying to end the spell before the petrification fully set in. The DC for an 11th level item would be 26, which the bard hit on the reroll... Except that a 6th level spell would add a -10 penalty to the 4th level dispel slot. Which is impossible for the bard to hit with his +11 spell roll.
I wound up letting the bard save his wizard boyfriend, and after discussing my dilemma with the group we decided to have them sell the mask for a bounty to the Church of Abadar to be destroyed. An 11th level item usually retails for about 1400 gp, so they took half of that to invest in upgrading their weapons and armor rather than have this once per day unbalancing spell.
If I run this encounter again, I will probably just replace it with a 6th level Demon Mask. It doesn't fit the boss's snake motif as well but it is very desirable and is level appropriate.
Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.
Organized Play Developer
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Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.Does the user wear the mask ? I assume not
Because if it does that is another wrinkle where a level 7 party would be decimated by it and never get a chance to earn itYeah, the boss is meant to use it on the PCs. Which was another tough moment-- It got used on the party wizard and the bard burned a 4th level dispel magic and a hero point trying to end the spell before the petrification fully set in. The DC for an 11th level item would be 26, which the bard hit on the reroll... Except that a 6th level spell would add a -10 penalty to the 4th level dispel slot. Which is impossible for the bard to hit with his +11 spell roll.
I wound up letting the bard save his wizard boyfriend, and after discussing my dilemma with the group we decided to have them sell the mask for a bounty to the Church of Abadar to be destroyed. An 11th level item usually retails for about 1400 gp, so they took half of that to invest in upgrading their weapons and armor rather than have this once per day unbalancing spell.
If I run this encounter again, I will probably just replace it with a 6th level Demon Mask. It doesn't fit the boss's snake motif as well but it is very desirable and is level appropriate.
Another possible way to spin it is to have the more potent properties of the mask be a property of Xanesha herself. The game actually has a long history of items like that, most notably the holy avenger, which is a +2 longsword until a paladin picks it up and it explodes into its full glory. So killing Xanesha and getting a "lesser" version of the mask wouldn't be any weirder than a fighter killing a paladin and only getting a +2 longsword instead of the holy avenger the paladin was swinging around during the fight. (You could even have a line like "When worn by a lamia or marilith this mask gains the following ability [...]", so technically the party isn't even getting a piece of loot that actually works differently, they're just getting a version of the demon mask with an extra ability they have no way to access.
Another possible way to spin it is to have the more potent properties of the mask be a property of Xanesha herself. The game actually has a...Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.Does the user wear the mask ? I assume not
Because if it does that is another wrinkle where a level 7 party would be decimated by it and never get a chance to earn itYeah, the boss is meant to use it on the PCs. Which was another tough moment-- It got used on the party wizard and the bard burned a 4th level dispel magic and a hero point trying to end the spell before the petrification fully set in. The DC for an 11th level item would be 26, which the bard hit on the reroll... Except that a 6th level spell would add a -10 penalty to the 4th level dispel slot. Which is impossible for the bard to hit with his +11 spell roll.
I wound up letting the bard save his wizard boyfriend, and after discussing my dilemma with the group we decided to have them sell the mask for a bounty to the Church of Abadar to be destroyed. An 11th level item usually retails for about 1400 gp, so they took half of that to invest in upgrading their weapons and armor rather than have this once per day unbalancing spell.
If I run this encounter again, I will probably just replace it with a 6th level Demon Mask. It doesn't fit the boss's snake motif as well but it is very desirable and is level appropriate.
That's absolutely an awesome idea! I love it, I'm stealing it, thank you.
...Another possible way to spin it is to have the more potent properties of the mask be a property of XaneshaAh man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.Does the user wear the mask ? I assume not
Because if it does that is another wrinkle where a level 7 party would be decimated by it and never get a chance to earn itYeah, the boss is meant to use it on the PCs. Which was another tough moment-- It got used on the party wizard and the bard burned a 4th level dispel magic and a hero point trying to end the spell before the petrification fully set in. The DC for an 11th level item would be 26, which the bard hit on the reroll... Except that a 6th level spell would add a -10 penalty to the 4th level dispel slot. Which is impossible for the bard to hit with his +11 spell roll.
I wound up letting the bard save his wizard boyfriend, and after discussing my dilemma with the group we decided to have them sell the mask for a bounty to the Church of Abadar to be destroyed. An 11th level item usually retails for about 1400 gp, so they took half of that to invest in upgrading their weapons and armor rather than have this once per day unbalancing spell.
If I run this encounter again, I will probably just replace it with a 6th level Demon Mask. It doesn't fit the boss's snake motif as well but it is very desirable and is level appropriate.
Yeah, me too. I'm gonna keep the bonus against visual effects and replace Flesh to Stone with Paralyze as suggested, and then let The Flesh to Stone thing be a lamia unlocked power.
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The other great thing about Mike's suggestion? The part that gives lamias more spells could probably do something like use the actual lamia's (much lower than a flesh to stone item) DC so that the PCs don't get wrecked.
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The other great thing about Mike's suggestion? The part that gives lamias more spells could probably do something like use the actual lamia's (much lower than a flesh to stone item) DC so that the PCs don't get wrecked.
Yup, and treat it ask limited to the max spell level of the lamia so you can counteract it. That's the conclusion we drew!
I plan on doing some conversions for RoRL from PF1 to PF2 when the books come out as I am introducing some teenagers to Pathfinder, we will be moving mid-way through Burnt Offerings
The hard planning part is one character is a Magus
Another is a WarPriest, but I am just turning that into a Cleric since the original player left and is now a GM PC
I think I will probably share a google doc to the forums to help with conversion
Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.
Pumpkin
Do you happen to have a listing of changes that you made / implemented? Having something to base mine off of as well would help. DC's are probably one thing from the Playtest that will probably need to be done again.
Nightfox
Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.
Pumpkin
Do you happen to have a listing of changes that you made / implemented? Having something to base mine off of as well would help. DC's are probably one thing from the Playtest that will probably need to be done again.
Nightfox
Back on the playtest forum there's a change log somebody made. I will say I have some big creative differences with many of their choices. I made a change log for Ironfang Invasion I haven't updated in a while. But if you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer them.
Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.
Pumpkin
Do you happen to have a listing of changes that you made / implemented? Having something to base mine off of as well would help. DC's are probably one thing from the Playtest that will probably need to be done again.
Nightfox
Unfortunately, I don't. I'm kinda old fashioned about stuff like that and any changes I've made I keep writing in a physical notebook. However this thread is a good starting point.
Captain Morgan's backgrounds are great and in my opinion better than the first guys write up. I will say I only used it as a starting point and have changed alot from his original conversion. For example the tentamot in Thistletop they used 2 Chokers while I used an Otyugh. I removed the stench ability and reflavored the filth fever to poison from the Tentamorts sting. I've actually probably changed more than I kept of this conversion to be honest, and I've added and removed enemies as I saw fit once I got to know my party and understood what's usually an easy encounter for them and what's difficult for them. I've tried to keep it mostly balanced though and never tried to add so many creatures as to get a TPK, only to make it just enough to make them sweat a little.
Back on the playtest forum there's a change log somebody made. I will say I have some big creative differences with many of their choices. I made a change log for Ironfang Invasion I haven't updated in a while. But if you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer them.
Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.
Pumpkin
Do you happen to have a listing of changes that you made / implemented? Having something to base mine off of as well would help. DC's are probably one thing from the Playtest that will probably need to be done again.
Nightfox
Yeah same I've got a lot of creative differences with them but it was helpful as a jumping off point, as were your backgrounds.
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Ah man, I am also running Rise of the Runelords converted to playtest rules and barring my players getting way off track or dying they should beat Xanesha next session. When I was wondering what to do with the mask I had decided to replace it with a Demon Mask, but it still does irk me that it doesn't fit her snake motif as you said. I may just give her the ability to cast flesh to stone once per day though I'm thinking the DC would be 23 since I'm running her stats as using the Night Hag from the bestiary but with different spells, and without some of the night hags abilities.
Pumpkin
Do you happen to have a listing of changes that you made / implemented? Having something to base mine off of as well would help. DC's are probably one thing from the Playtest that will probably need to be done again.
Nightfox
Unfortunately, I don't. I'm kinda old fashioned about stuff like that and any changes I've made I keep writing in a physical notebook. However this thread is a good starting point.
Captain Morgan's backgrounds are great and in my opinion better than the first guys write up. I will say I only used it as a starting point and have changed alot from his original conversion. For example the tentamot in Thistletop they used 2 Chokers while I used an Otyugh. I removed the stench ability and reflavored the filth fever to poison from the Tentamorts sting. I've actually probably changed more than I kept of this conversion to be honest, and I've added and removed enemies as I saw fit once I got to know my party and understood what's usually an easy encounter for them and what's difficult for them. I've tried to keep it mostly balanced though and never tried to add so many creatures as to get a TPK, only to make it just enough to make them sweat a little.
Good call on the Otyugh, I had a similar thought occur to me.
I ran book 2 with challenge ratings mostly as written, and I will say many of the fights were cake walks. Ghouls are just not super threatening to level 5 and 6 characters. I can't imagine a decently optimized PF1 party would have had a harder time, but I didn't get that far in it for PF1. Book 1 seems about the same for actual difficulty so far, IMO.
I also think it is pretty easy to use the monster level adjuster to fit in the appropriate creatures where need be. .