Need help running summons

[Cevah]

The other day, I finally made use of my modified Rune Guardian. The mod was bumping it from Summon Monster I to Summon Monster II.

The main point is that it can bring 1 (or 1d3) creatures to the table each round and they stay awhile. I could potentially have 15 out, but will likely only have at most either 5 (2nd level summons) or 10 (1st level summons). I am aware that playing summons takes time, so I will likely try not to have too many out at once. Especially as summoning means the rune guardian only moves 5' at a time.

That said, I want to play them fast. This means being able to read their stat block quickly, and to keep track of which one goes when. I made a post with all my SM1 and SM2 critters here. I don't plan to deviate from this, in order to limit my choices and to make things go quickly.

To that end, what do you do to make your summons go quickly? Special cue cards? Numbered pogs? Let me know.

/cevah

[phlict]

Hi Cevah,
There have been a few discussions of this topic in the past, so I will link to them to save space.
If you haven't seen it already, I highly recommend this summoning guide: "Why work when ithers can do it for you?"
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16dZ5SBQMS1Yi6531tXOkKE_rmXEwn4VFacOEQKi HA5E/

There is some discussion of your specific question here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/8nipsk/playing_a_summoner_ differently/

Basically, to play a summoner well it helps a lot to be prepared. This means:
1. Study your summon list and make a plan for what situations you will use each type of summon for.
2. Make printouts of monster stats for all of the summons you plan to use (including any buffs they will have, such as augmented summoning). Doesn't hurt to have multiples of these on cards.
3. Get some extra dice so you can roll all of their attacks and damage at once (helps if they are color coded)
4. Try to plan ahead on other players turns so you already have an idea what you will do when your turn comes up.
5. All if your summons should act on the same Initiative (yours). Focus fire tactics are preferred to simplify attacks (see point 3). Dont worry too much if a few attackes are wasted on a downed enemy.
6. Alternately, if you have party members that benefit from flanking then give them one of your cards and let them control it. (maybe even let that summon delay until their action... this may only work if they have a means of communicating though... animal summons may require handle animal to do anything but all-out attack the nearest target each round, depending on your GM)

Seems like you may already have 1&2 already prepared based on your linked post. I hope the rest helps!

I don't actually have much in-game experience playing with summons, but I have been doing a lot of research to prepare for my master summoner in a new campaign...

[Cevah]

phlict wrote:

Hi Cevah,

There have been a few discussions of this topic in the past, so I will link to them to save space.
If you haven't seen it already, I highly recommend this summoning guide: Why work when ithers can do it for you?

There is some discussion of your specific question here: Playing a Summoner Differently

...assorted points...

I don't actually have much in-game experience playing with summons, but I have been doing a lot of research to prepare for my master summoner in a new campaign...

Linkified. And heading off to reading the reddit thread.

As mentioned in the OP, this is a construct doing the actual summons, not a summoner. Still, and hints from folks that run lots of summons are welcome.

/cevah

[PFRPGrognard]

Have your summons' stats handy and roll your attack dice with your damage dice to save time. You will find supplements like the Summoner's Compendium quite useful in having your stats available all the time.

[Teupokoles]

The 'Which one goes when' is neatly solve by the line in the summon monster spell that read 'It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.'.
So they all act at the same time, even if you spend several turns in a row summoning more and more.

I generally refrain from having more that one summon spell running at a time, so as to not take up too much time at the table... Besides there's the fact that a well-built summoner can easily match an entire party for power, so a certain amount of being your own judge on limits is usually prudent.
With it being a construct casting a 2nd-level summon spell, I'm assuming that your characters level is quite a bit higher than that of the 3rd-level wizard that would usually cast this spell so the power level consideration isn't as relevant.

Consider playing them the same way that a GM would a horde fight. Since they all act at the same time, you can first move all of them and then roll a massive handful of d20s for all of their attacks at the same time. If the GM is willing to simply tell you the opponents AC then it's pretty quick to sort through how many hits you get, if he won't tell you then just ask in descending order if your hits land and you'll pretty quickly be able to work out what rolls go in and what don't.
With the low level of the summoning spell the creatures will quickly, if not already, devolve into just being HP bags to absorb a single attack each, obstacles that make enemies charges difficult and flanking buddies for the party, all of which are great uses of them since your not the one using actions to cast them.

Getting good at moving them quickly, rolling all of their attacks at the same time and maybe even just having them die immediately when they take any real damage so that you don't have to keep track of their remaining HP, are the keys to not being too annoying as a summoner of tons of low-level creatures. You ought to only ever summon one type of creature at a time too... It gets confusing if you have four different types of summons at the same time, faster to just summon 12 of the same creature so that you can do all the rolls at the same time.

[Cevah]

While I dislike the idea of making the summons die on any hit, i think the idea has merit for speeding up play.

I also agree that I should only have one type out at a time.

/cevah

[Cevah]

While planning ahead is something I should do, it has yet to come up. This is because I have so far only summoned eagles and spiders. I have played them as move to the nearest enemy and attack. Since there is no handle animal in play, nor speak with animal/vermin, the only positioning is where I summon them, which I determine off-turn.

Another thought I had was how to organize the stat block of the creature. At the moment, I have set up an extra line as the second line of the stat block. It is of the form:
AC #; Fort +#, Ref +#, Will +#; SR #; Attack +# (1d#+#); Smite (+#/+#); HP #
This lets me look up stats on a single line without having to read the entire stat block to find the info. As I expect to be hit by a physical attack more often than a spell, the AC is at the beginning of the line, while the attack (&smite) are in the middle, and the HP are at the end where I can easily spot it for when the summons is hit.

If anyone has a better suggestion for a shortened statblock, please let me know.

My SM cheat sheet:

1d3; Dolphin; Medium animal
AC 13; Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +1; SR 5; Slam +5 (1d4+3); Smite (+0/+2); HP 15
1d3; Eagle; Small animal
AC 14; Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +2; SR 5; 2 Talons +3 (1d4+2), Bite +3 (1d4+2) ; Smite (+0/+1); HP 7
1d3; Pony; Medium animal
AC 11; Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +0; SR 5; 2 Hooves -1 (1d3+2) ; Smite (+0/+2); HP 17
1; Giant Spider; Medium vermin
AC 14; Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +1; SR 6; Bite +4 (1d6+2 & Poison); Web +5 ranged touch 10’; Smite (+0/+3); HP 22
1; Lemure [LE]; Medium outsider (devil, evil, extraplanar, lawful)
AC 14; Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +0; DR 5/good or silver; Resist acid 10, cold 10; SR 5; 2 Claws +4 (1d4+2); HP 17
1; Small Aether Elemental; Small outsider (aether, elemental, extraplanar)
AC 14; Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +0; Slam +6 (1d4+3); TK maneuver, TK throw +5 (1d8+2) [PBS] (Fort DC 14 Neg); HP 17
1; Small Air Elemental; Small outsider (air, elemental, extraplanar)
AC 17; Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +0; Slam +6 (1d4+3); whirlwind (Ref DC 12); HP 17
1; Small Earth Elemental; Small outsider (earth, elemental, extraplanar)
AC 17; Fort +6, Ref -1, Will +3; Slam +8 (1d6+7) [+7 (1d6+10) w/PA]; Earth Mastery; HP 17
1; Small Fire Elemental; Small outsider (elemental, extraplanar, fire)
AC 16; Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +0; Slam +4 (1d4+2 & burn); Burn (1d4, Ref DC 11); HP 15
1; Small Ice Elemental; Small outsider (air, cold, elemental, extraplanar, water)
AC 16; Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +0; Slam +6 (1d4+3 & 1d3 cold); Numbing Cold (Fort DC 14); HP 17
1; Small Lightning Elemental; Small outsider (air, elemental, extraplanar)
AC 14; Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +0; Slam +5 (1d4+2 & 1d3 electricity); Metal Mastery, Spark Leap; HP 15
1; Small Mud Elemental; Small outsider (earth, elemental, extraplanar, water)
AC 16; Fort +6, Ref +2, Will +0; Slam +7 (1d4+5 & entrap); Entrap (Fort DC 12, 10 min, hard 5, hp 5); HP 17
1; Small Magma Elemental; Small outsider (earth, elemental, extraplanar, fire)
AC 15; Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +0; Slam +5 (1d3+2 & burn); Burn (1d4, Ref DC 9), Lava Puddle; HP 15
1; Small Water Elemental; Small outsider (elemental, extraplanar, water)
AC 17; Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +0; Slam +7 (1d6+5); Drench, Vortex (Ref DC 13), Water Mastery; HP 17

/cevah

[Kiesman]

If you have an Android device, the developer of the amazing app Pathbuilder also made an app called "Master Summoner", that includes all the stat blocks for Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally, including template and feat modifications. It has the ability to roll attacks from the summons and track HP right in-app too.

[blahpers]

Given the construct's average intellect, it might make sense to predetermine which monster(s) the rune will summon ahead of time and just not worry about any of the other options. That way you can have only one or two brief statblocks and the rest can be put on a different sheet/page/tab/whatever just in case the room fills with water or something. Given the average party, more likely than not, the thing is gonna die before it gets more than a couple of spells off anyway.

[Cevah]

I already have the short list. That fits on a single page.
The medium list is another 3 pages and another page with a list of when each of the medium list should be used.

As to being targeted, it will be either at a distance, or with me. When with me, I will be far more likely to be targeted. I don't plan to have it go against casters, as the summoned monsters won't be very effective. I think the summons will be more effective causing grief to bruisers.

/cevah

[JiaYou]

Summons could be great for surrounding a caster, who will probably make any defensive casting checks but be unable to take out or disable all 3/4 eagles you summon in the first round.

Somewhat tangential question: you are far more likely to be targeted because the GM is being nice, or because an artifact that gives a second level spell at will by itself (thereby increasing action economy) is par for the course in your campaign, and in fact you are more dangerous than even that artifact? Just curious because that honestly influences how I'd recommend you go about this.

Edit: you mentioned you don't like having summons die after one hit, but an unaugmented eagle has only 5 HP, and so I would guess that any CR-appropriate foe would take one of them out even rolling all 1s. Pony is an exception but you're literally just summoning those as meat shields.

[Cevah]

Actually, the eagle (augmented) has 7 hp. :-)
I expect them to die in a single hit. The giant spider (augmented), at 22 is not as likely to go down with a single hit.

As I provide Inspiration (+3/+3) to the party, I am far more dangerous than my rune guardian. With a reach build, and spellcasting, that just ups the trouble I can dish out. Unless the rune guardian is in another square, the manifestation will likely be assumed to be my doing something since the rune guardian's casting has no V S or M associated with its SLA.

Surrounding a caster with eagles does not work so well, since they have weak attacks and weaker damage. The caster not only will likely make the defensive checks, but can easily eat the small damage for longer than the fight will last.

I think the use as flankers, and speed bumps for enemies is likely a better option than trying to be damage dealers. Even with my inspiration to help. The spiders are an exception since they get a touch attack for their web which debuffs an enemy. This attack will tend to hit while melee hits for damage will tend to miss. With the prevalence of DR at our level, damage is even less of a factor.

Lastly, the rune guardian is a CL 11 construct, not an artifact.

.cevah

[JiaYou]

Got it. Yeah I pretty much agree with everything you said. So the Rune Guardian (sorry, wasn't being precise with my language at all when I called it an artifact) also has Augment Summoning? Nice...

Maybe add little shorthand for things like earth elementals getting +1 to attack and damage when both it and target are on the ground, or how airborne foes take - 1 to hit air elementals so you're not missing out on bonuses/penalties.

[Melkiador]

I focus on just keeping the basics on hand and the rest of the stat block not far away. For most encounters all you often need is the creature’s attacks, AC and HP. And referencing that small set will often be faster than seeking through a whole stat block for most people.

[Ryan Freire]

3X5 note cards

Speed:
AC:
HP:
Saves:
Attacks:
Spell abilities: