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Ability Damage can cause a character to fall unconscious if the damage is greater than their ability score.
Ability Penalties can't lower an ability score below 1.
What if a Wizard has 10 Strength. He has had some really bad luck with a poison that has done 8 points of Strength damage. He is then hit with a ray of exhaustion, but makes his save making him fatigued. Fatigue applies a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity.
Does the Wizard fall unconscious?
Is the penalties applied in order gained?
Is the fatigue penalties applied before the poison ability damage?
Is the poison ability damage applied before the fatigue penalties?
Source for Ability Damage, Drain, and Penalty PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 555
Love to read you opinion on this and whether you were able to find an FAQ on this.
Thanks <3
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The Wizard does not fall unconscious. The poison happened first, so the Fatigue penalty is applied to his current stat score which is 2. Since Fatigue is a penalty, it can not lower his stat to less than 1.
The answer is in the rules you linked, "While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1."
He now has a Strength of 1. He is most likely Heavily Encumbered now, so he can have fun dealing with that too. Depending on what he is wearing, he might not be able to move more than 5 feet a round. If he has a backpack I'm guessing it's over 10 pounds, which is now his max load. You can lift double your max load off the ground, but can only move 5 feet a round as a full round action.
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Wizard does not fall unconscious. The poison happened first, so the Fatigue penalty is applied to his current stat score which is 2. Since Fatigue is a penalty, it can not lower his stat to less than 1.
The answer is in the rules you linked, "While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1."
He now has a Strength of 1. He is most likely Heavily Encumbered now, so he can have fun dealing with that too. Depending on what he is wearing, he might not be able to move more than 5 feet a round. If he has a backpack I'm guessing it's over 10 pounds, which is now his max load. You can lift double your max load off the ground, but can only move 5 feet a round as a full round action.
strength damage does not effect encumbrance, where penalty does. Crazy ruling but I think they did it so people didn't have to refugee all the time cause damage happens a lot.
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In my above example, the wizard would be unconscious if he took another point of Strength damage from the poison, but no further Strength penalties can apply (such a hit from ray of enfeeblement)?No, an additional point of strength damage from poison would put him at 10 - 9 (=1) with a -2 penalty (min 1, hence =1), where the -2 penalty has no effect because they're already at minimum 1 strength.
Penalties would always be calculated after damage.
Agree
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strength damage does not effect encumbrance, where penalty does. Crazy ruling but I think they did it so people didn't have to refugee all the time cause damage happens a lot.The Wizard does not fall unconscious. The poison happened first, so the Fatigue penalty is applied to his current stat score which is 2. Since Fatigue is a penalty, it can not lower his stat to less than 1.
The answer is in the rules you linked, "While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1."
He now has a Strength of 1. He is most likely Heavily Encumbered now, so he can have fun dealing with that too. Depending on what he is wearing, he might not be able to move more than 5 feet a round. If he has a backpack I'm guessing it's over 10 pounds, which is now his max load. You can lift double your max load off the ground, but can only move 5 feet a round as a full round action.
WRONG!!!
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WRONG!!!strength damage does not effect encumbrance, where penalty does. Crazy ruling but I think they did it so people didn't have to refugee all the time cause damage happens a lot.The Wizard does not fall unconscious. The poison happened first, so the Fatigue penalty is applied to his current stat score which is 2. Since Fatigue is a penalty, it can not lower his stat to less than 1.
The answer is in the rules you linked, "While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1."
He now has a Strength of 1. He is most likely Heavily Encumbered now, so he can have fun dealing with that too. Depending on what he is wearing, he might not be able to move more than 5 feet a round. If he has a backpack I'm guessing it's over 10 pounds, which is now his max load. You can lift double your max load off the ground, but can only move 5 feet a round as a full round action.
You might want to elaborate as to why you think he's wrong. And actually, he's not wrong about Strength ability damage affecting weight encumbrance...
By RAW, ability damage only affects specific things as described here:
Ability Damage
Strength: Damage to your Strength score causes you to take penalties on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The penalty also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and your Combat Maneuver Defense.
It does not mention that weight allowance is affected by ability damage.
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WRONG!!!strength damage does not effect encumbrance, where penalty does. Crazy ruling but I think they did it so people didn't have to refugee all the time cause damage happens a lot.The Wizard does not fall unconscious. The poison happened first, so the Fatigue penalty is applied to his current stat score which is 2. Since Fatigue is a penalty, it can not lower his stat to less than 1.
The answer is in the rules you linked, "While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1."
He now has a Strength of 1. He is most likely Heavily Encumbered now, so he can have fun dealing with that too. Depending on what he is wearing, he might not be able to move more than 5 feet a round. If he has a backpack I'm guessing it's over 10 pounds, which is now his max load. You can lift double your max load off the ground, but can only move 5 feet a round as a full round action.
You might want to elaborate as to why you think he's wrong. And actually, he's not wrong about Strength ability damage affecting weight encumbrance...
I was looking up this subject again and found that I posted wrongly, so I updated my mistake as being wrong. penalty dose not effect carrying weight
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I was looking up this subject again and found that I posted wrongly, so I updated my mistake as being wrong. penalty dose not effect carrying weight
It is a bit questionable. It is worded similarly to the enhancements, and those have been FAQed:
Temporary Ability Score Increases vs. Permanent Ability Score Increases: Why do temporary bonuses only apply to some things?
Temporary ability bonuses should apply to anything relating to that ability score, just as permanent ability score bonuses do. The section in the glossary was very tight on space and it was not possible to list every single ability score-related game effect that an ability score bones would affect.
The purpose of the temporary ability score ruling is to make it so you don't have to rebuild your character every time you get a bull's strength or similar spell; it just summarizes the most common game effects relative to that ability score.
For example, most of the time when you get bull's strength, you're using it for combat, so the glossary mentions Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, Strength-based weapon damage rolls, CMB, and CMD. It doesn't call out melee attack rolls that use Dex instead of Str (such as when using Weapon Finesse) or situations where your applied Str bonus should be halved or multiplied (such as with off-hand or two-handed weapons). You're usually not using the spell for a 1 min./level increase in your carrying capacity, so that isn't mentioned there, but the bonus should still apply to that, as well as to Strength checks to break down doors.
Think of it in the same way that a simple template has "quick rules" and "rebuild rules;" they're supposed to create monsters which are roughly equivalent in terms of stats, but the quick rules are a short cut that misses some details compared to using the rebuild rules. Likewise, the temporary ability score rule is intended as a short cut to speed up gameplay, not as the most precise way of applying the bonus.
A temporary ability score bonus should affect all of the same stats and rolls that a permanent ability score bonus does.
Penalties haven't been FAQed, but, as they work in a similar way and have a similar text, it is logical to assume that you lose carrying capacity and suffer other effects as you gain carrying capacity and gain other benefits for increasing your stat temporarily.
If you play strictly RAW it doesn't work that way, but I think it is RAI.