Kineticist and Wild Talents

[Derek Dalton]

So I'm missing something. I have played an Earth Kineticist once and had a blast with him. Now thinking of playing a Void one. However I skimmed the rules the last time since I'm now seeing and reading about wild infusions. According to the rules I have to be double the level to pick wild infusions. So flame jet is listed as 3rd level and greater flame jet is 5th level. So if I'm reading and understanding this correctly I can pick up flame jet at 6th level and greater flame jet at 10th level? Is it me or am I missing something. I like the class but if I'm understanding the rules right it seems to limit the class more then I realize.

[Syries]

Nope, that's correct. It's unfortunate (especially for PFS play that doesn't normally see play past 11th level) that there's not any good way to obtain higher level wild talents at the level you would get them through class progression.

It means that your first two infusions must be first level, but your utility talents can be 1st at 2nd level and 2nd at 4th level. and at 6th level (realistically 7th unless you retrain a feat) when you can start picking up Extra Wild Talent Feat, you can only pick up 1st level wild talents.

The wild talent progression is in my opinion fairly messy. an air kineticist can only choose to get Haste OR flight, not both, by level 6 where a wizard or sorcerer can have both. While it makes sense to have both of those talents be 3rd level so as to not make the abilities available before wizards, I don't think it's gamebreaking to allow a kineticist the ability to also pick up other higher level talents. They're already not super great outside of blasting.

[Derek Dalton]

The rules suck my friend. Feather fall is a first level spell. A Kineticist has to wait until second. Now granted it's permanent like fly is later on. The blasts and their infusions don't really scale either. The blasts are all roll to hit with an Okay BAB. Now you can do this all day which is the main feature of the character. However a well trained fighter with 2 weapon fighting can almost do the same. Worse a smart wizard with a wand is doing 5d6 with fire or lightning. A wand of Magic Missiles is slightly less damage 3d4+3. Only a Shield spell which only arcane casters have is the only way to stop them. Point shoot roll for damage.
When I played my first kineticist I picked the ability as they said they were available not double their level. Didn't over power the party at all. I was the ranged blaster of the group and my other powers didn't come close to overshadowing anyone. At level made sense and worked just fine not double the level listed. I could do things the other party members couldn't but the same was for me. I could climb stone walls with almost no chance of failure. But I couldn't disarm magical traps. I couldn't track like a Ranger,

[Ellias Aubec]

Doesn't matter low down, but if you took the suffocate ability at level 6 instead of 12 when the spellcasters would be also getting it, you get a hefty boost to your power. The level of the talent is just a comparable spell level rather than the character level.

[Meirril]

The rate at which a kinetisists gain abilities makes them very compairable to Sorcerers and Arcanists. Being able to use that new ability and your best offense all day long is much better than what those other classes can do at the same time.

That is the design trade off of a Kinetisist. If you like what wizards do so much, play one. Kinetisist isn't too exciting, but its well made for what it does and balanced against those full casting classes.

[Syries]

Oh, the rate at which kineticists gain power is not what I'm sad about regarding the class. The kineticist shouldn't be able to fly any faster than a wizard or sorcerer, and that's fair I think.
But they should have access to learn other utility stuff too that is at the power level they already are at. Kineticists are simply VERY limited in the neat tricks they can do.

[Derek Dalton]

Thank you Syries. My original plan was to do a 2 level dip into the class for the darkvision. The d6 blast would be used but without any interest adding to it.
I like the class but I do think it needs a revision to clarify things and maybe change some of the utility abilities and when there are available.