I've been following along a non-Society group playing as space pirates and serving occasionally as the "player" of the AI of their ship when I could make it to sessions. I'll be able to join the group properly soon, and I'll be continuing my role as that AI - in a fresh Android body. (think Rommie and Doyle from Andromeda, or Android/Suki from Dark Matter)
I know redundancies are inevitable, but I want to choose a class and role that will help round out the existing group that makes sense for a "ship" to take on. The group currently consists of a Human Envoy (captain), a Vesk Soldier (the frontline), a Lashunta Mechanic with a scattershot and a Combat Drone, a Lashunta Technomancer, and a Ysoki Operative (Ghost type.)
Any suggestions on what to pick for my Class?
Androids are cool, but you may want to consider an SRO (from Pact Worlds) instead; they are fully robotic AIs.
Initially I was thinking a Hacker or Gadgeteer (from Armory) Operative, but the group seems to have skill checks well in-hand, so you don't necessarily have to take on a skill-heavy role, even though it kinda makes sense for the character.
You could also do an Exo-Cortex Mechanic, which fulfills a slightly different niche than the Drone Mechanic. The Neural Shunt Mechanic Trick seems like a cool AI stunt, partitioning status effects in the robot brain.
What the group could probably use, though, is a Mystic. The Geneturge connection from Armory might be a great choice for an AI experimenting with a corporeal body. The main skills are Life Science and Medicine, which aren't hugely represented in the current party's classes. Geneturges also have bonuses to augmentations, so you can modify the body over time as the AI sees the potential of a physical body over a mainframe.
I really like the special Brain augmentation they can get... you add an Intelligence-based skill to your Mystic Connection skills, and can always Take 10 with that skill, even when distracted or in danger. Take it with Computers and you can hack reliably even in the middle of combat, which seems like an AI thing to do.
A Mystic would also let you cast healing spells to keep the vesk frontliner on his feet, and Share Language to make sure you can communicate with strange aliens you meet.
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With that group composition, just about anything fits right in. An actual healer is missing, but also I assume, close to unnecessary.
So, all that's left is what flavor fits a ship AI downloading into an android body.
Turns out that's about everything too. Even solarians and mystics (especially star shaman), they work of connections to the stars themselves... and you've literally been the ship flying through the stars.
So, what basic roles are running a little dry in the group? Is the envoy built for ranged combat or as the face? Is the mechanic laying down a lot of ranged fire, or is their drone doing a lot of work in melee? Is the technomancer a blaster, a shooty type, or a junksword melee type? Do they need a thicker front line, more support, more ranged fire, or more out of combat problem solvers?
Don't be afraid to double up on a class and just build your character differently than your fellow party member.
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An Envoy specialized in medicine, a living representation of the ship's medlab.
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An Envoy specialized in medicine, a living representation of the ship's medlab.
"State the nature of your medical emergency."
Androids are cool, but you may want to consider an SRO (from Pact Worlds) instead; they are fully robotic AIs.
Initially, I was thinking a Hacker or Gadgeteer (from Armory) Operative, but the group seems to have skill checks well in-hand, so you don't necessarily have to take on a skill-heavy role, even though it kinda makes sense for the character.
You could also do an Exo-Cortex Mechanic, which fulfills a slightly different niche than the Drone Mechanic. The Neural Shunt Mechanic Trick seems like a cool AI stunt, partitioning status effects in the robot brain.
What the group could probably use, though, is a Mystic. The Geneturge connection from Armory might be a great choice for an AI experimenting with a corporeal body. The main skills are Life Science and Medicine, which aren't hugely represented in the current party's classes. Geneturges also have bonuses to augmentations, so you can modify the body over time as the AI sees the potential of a physical body over a mainframe.
I really like the special Brain augmentation they can get... you add an Intelligence-based skill to your Mystic Connection skills, and can always Take 10 with that skill, even when distracted or in danger. Take it with Computers and you can hack reliably even in the middle of combat, which seems like an AI thing to do.
A Mystic would also let you cast healing spells to keep the vesk frontliner on his feet and Share Language to make sure you can communicate with strange aliens you meet.
I don't have Pact Worlds, but I have heard of SROs. One of my concerns is that they're meant to not only be fully robotic but look it as well. Some of the established players are already making contingencies where I would have to diguise/pose as a humanoid unrelated to the party, either as bait, rescue, or as a distraction. I'm going to have to spend more money on an illusionary disguise if I'm going to do that as someone who normally looks like an easily recognizable robot.
The Geneturge idea is something I'm going to have to look at in more detail. It really sounds really cool, but all the augmentations are listed as "biotech" wouldn't that be a problem if my body is fully robotic?So, what basic roles are running a little dry in the group? Is the envoy built for ranged combat or as the face? Is the mechanic laying down a lot of ranged fire, or is their drone doing a lot of work in melee? Is the technomancer a blaster, a shooty type, or a junksword melee type? Do they need a thicker front line, more support, more ranged fire, or more out of combat problem solvers?
Don't be afraid to double up on a class and just build your character differently than your fellow party member.
The Envoy is the face of the party for noncombat situations and does ranged attacks and support improvs in combat. The Mechanic gets in the frontline along with the Vesk to use his cone-attack shotgun while the Combat Drone lays down fire with longer range weapons. The Technomancer is a blaster type.
I don't have Pact Worlds, but I have heard of SROs.
You can look SROs up at the Archives of Nethys website for free.
One of my concerns is that they're meant to not only be fully robotic but look it as well. Some of the established players are already making contingencies where I would have to diguise/pose as a humanoid unrelated to the party, either as bait, rescue, or as a distraction. I'm going to have to spend more money on an illusionary disguise if I'm going to do that as someone who normally looks like an easily recognizable robot.
True. On the other hand, as we know from Star Wars, people generally disregard robots; you could build some strategies around that. SROs can be either Small or Medium-sized; you could perhaps have fun with a small robot scuttling around the mark's facility, ignored by the security staff.
The Geneturge idea is something I'm going to have to look at in more detail. It really sounds really cool, but all the augmentations are listed as "biotech" wouldn't that be a problem if my body is fully robotic?
Not at all. The Armory clearly states that any race can use any item of equipment. For example, my Society SRO, Dragonbot, has a Wyrmling Gland biotech augmentation so he can breathe electricity like a blue dragon. It makes sense: If they can graft mechanical cybernetic parts onto a living creature, who's to say that they can't find a way to stick living parts on a mechanical creature?
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I don't have Pact Worlds, but I have heard of SROs. One of my concerns is that they're meant to not only be fully robotic but look it as well. Some of the established players are already making contingencies where I would have to diguise/pose as a humanoid unrelated to the party, either as bait, rescue, or as a distraction. I'm going to have to spend more money on an illusionary disguise if I'm going to do that as someone who normally looks like an easily recognizable robot.
The Geneturge idea is something I'm going to have to look at in more detail. It really sounds really cool, but all the augmentations are listed as "biotech" wouldn't that be a problem if my body is fully robotic?
A holoskin lasts for about 3 hrs on a battery and is only 500 Cr, the disguise problem isn't too bad to work around.
As far as I know SROs can install biotech augments as much as they want. They probably start looking pretty creepy once they've installed akin augments and such, but that depends on what you want your character to look like.
The Envoy is the face of the party for noncombat situations and does ranged attacks and support improvs in combat. The Mechanic gets in the frontline along with the Vesk to use his cone-attack shotgun while the Combat Drone lays down fire with longer range weapons. The Technomancer is a blaster type.
And I'm assuming the operative does the standard trick attack with a pistol routine?
So, it sounds like melee is crowded enough, you might as well stay back.
I would build a ranged combat character.
Seeing as you're also the ship AI, I think the closest match mechanically is going to be the exocortex mechanic. You could say that your exocortex is your ship's AI, and your character is the downloaded copy in the android body.
Focus on either longarms or heavy weapons. Read through the mechanic tricks, and look at your fellow mechanic's own tricks. You can build your character to do things outside of combat differently than they have. It should help with overlapping party roles.
You both will have overlap with some basic abilities, including the ability to remote start and eventually remote pilot the starship, so I recommend talking to the other player before deciding.
Alternately, the mystic is a decent choice. When building one, don't be afraid to focus on DEX and pick up some guns and shoot instead of being a brain blaster. Fill your spells known with healing, buffs, and maybe summons, and you'll be fine without a high wisdom. The brain-blaster type mystic is good too, just that creatures immune to mind-affecting tend to shut them down.
I also think Mystic is the only class bringing something new to your party. And considering noone is specialized in Wisdom-based skills (unless the Operative has Wisdom as secondary attribute) I would go for a full caster, with as much Wisdom as possible.
If you don't want to play a Mystic, I think there is space for a heavy hitter, either Soldier or Solarian. It looks like you could use an extra character on the frontline, as the Vesk can't handle everything on his own (especially with only one healer behind).
"State the nature of your medical emergency."
Or biohacker, if the playtest classes are available.
I have a hard time buying a ship AI finding religion once it gains a humanoid body - unless it was preaching Triune's teachings to the crew way beforehand.
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"State the nature of your medical emergency."Or biohacker, if the playtest classes are available.
I have a hard time buying a ship AI finding religion once it gains a humanoid body - unless it was preaching Triune's teachings to the crew way beforehand.
Mystics aren't religious in starfinder.
They can be, but by default, they access magic by finding connections to specific concepts. The akashic record, the stars, other minds, nature, etc. Not deities.
Ignoring mechanics/spell lists, I would say the mystic is closer to the PF wizard, and the technomancer is closer to the PF bard. No one's a cleric without the priest theme.
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"State the nature of your medical emergency."I have a hard time buying a ship AI finding religion once it gains a humanoid body - unless it was preaching Triune's teachings to the crew way beforehand.
It's a good thing Mystic's don't have to be religious!
But also: why not? Finding religion - or deciding to practice more devout patronage to the very tangible deities, as the case would be - could be a very normal part of ones' world experiences changing drastically. Like being a ship and then suddenly having a personal body with millions of all-new sensations.
Geneturge Mystic is, like, even less related to gods than most Connections. It's literally finding the power within you through SCIENCE.
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As an android myself, I feel it necessary to assist my kin in these forms of matters.
To hell with them.
Do not shape who you are around other people, do what appeals to you and make sure you survive.
However, I will agree that if you are a complex AI wanting to download into a physical form; an SRO is likely to be far more comfortable.
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If you do go with Android, though, that suggests an interest in biology. Either a preexisting one or an inspiration from sudden experience with the concept.
There’s several Mystic connections that fit that. Or Biohacker.
Alternatively, the AI could want to specialize in something its new body enables it to do that it couldn’t before—but that fits most classes.
Potato, potato.
finding connections to specific concepts
That's religion right there.
But let's see what the CRB actually says about the class:
You may conceptualize the source of your magic as divine grace, a manipulation of fundamental energy, or an unlocking of psychic potential, but always with the knowledge that you are a conduit channeling forces greater than yourself.
You have a mysterious connection with some force that grants you magical powers. The exact nature of your connection can vary widely, and even mystics who share the same connection may interpret it differently.
Many mystics serve as priests of various gods, and while you can theoretically choose any type of connection with any entity or concept, deities rarely grant connections that don’t fit within their ethos (for example, Weydan, the god of freedom, is unlikely to look kindly on overlords). As such, each connection lists the deities and philosophies commonly associated with it.
The mystic is a space cleric/oracle, or in the very least, conceptually a space witch - although the mechanics in this last case don't match at all.
I suppose transitioning from a ship into an android body might be enough of a spiritual experience to warrant a mystic - but it doesn't seem this character will be starting at level 1, so a biohacker or mechanic would make way more sense as "jobs" the ship had previous experience with.
Ignoring mechanics/spell lists, I would say the mystic is closer to the PF wizard, and the technomancer is closer to the PF bard. No one's a cleric without the priest theme.
I believe ignoring mechanics to compare fluff between game systems is just... gah.
The mystic is a space cleric/oracle, or in the very least, conceptually a space witch - although the mechanics in this last case don't match at all.
The mystic is a space psychic with a few spells that were on the witch list and almost(?) none that were exclusive to the cleric. The mystic spell list has a lot more overlap with the Pathfinder psychic than the pathfinder cleric/oracle. It has several that were psychic exclusive, and that extends to several connection powers, especially Mindbreaker, Akashic, and Empath connections. Only the Healer connection has any closeness to the old Pathfinder cleric.
Which makes sense, because psychics fit better with science fiction than clerics do.
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Potato, potato.
finding connections to specific conceptsThat's religion right there.
But it's not religion. It doesn't even inherently have to be spiritualism. I feel a strong "connection" to life and healing and animals so deeply that I would almost describe it as a calling. It informed my career and hobbies, but it doesn't make any belief I have in deities or an afterlife. I'm not even an animist.
In the same way, a person can find a connection to some hypothetical force of nature or even receive a blessing from some deity that allows them to alter reality in ways I've never seen a person do and they could still be agnostic. Sorry, Grand Moff Tarkin, just because someone does Force things doesn't make them a part of a religionAlso, again I say that this is a universe where the deities and magic, are real, tangible things that can be interacted with and empirically proven. Religion is basically a given and people chose to pay homage to certain members of the pantheon. A Mystic doesn't have to be a Cleric. They can be an ascetic monk, or a witch, or a psion.
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Perhaps acquiring a soul was the impetus for gaining the android body? The ship's AI was perfectly content being nothing more than the ship's AI until it gained a soul. At that point it wanted more. An old android in the area decided to move on, and the ship's AI moved in.
Also, I would think that Star Shaman would be a fitting connection for a starship-AI-turned-Mystic to have.
The mystic is a space psychic with a few spells that were on the witch list and almost(?) none that were exclusive to the cleric. The mystic spell list has a lot more overlap with the Pathfinder psychic than the pathfinder cleric/oracle. It has several that were psychic exclusive, and that extends to several connection powers, especially Mindbreaker, Akashic, and Empath connections. Only the Healer connection has any closeness to the old Pathfinder cleric.
If Paizo really wanted the Mystic not to be the Space Cleric, they wouldn't have given them all the healing powers.
I mean, what's the logical sense of the Technomancer being unable to heal? It seems like the fluff still puts healing in the divine area.
Which makes sense, because psychics fit better with science fiction than clerics do.
What? All major science fiction is loaded with religion.
A Mystic doesn't have to be a Cleric. They can be an ascetic monk, or a witch, or a psion.
Yeah, except for the "always with the knowledge that you are a conduit channeling forces greater than yourself", which doesn't match the fluff of a monk or psion at all, but sorta matches the Pathfinder witch, except for the lack of familiars.
I hope all this off-topic chatter is a bit helpful to the OP.
The mystic is a space psychic with a few spells that were on the witch list and almost(?) none that were exclusive to the cleric. The mystic spell list has a lot more overlap with the Pathfinder psychic than the pathfinder cleric/oracle. It has several that were psychic exclusive, and that extends to several connection powers, especially Mindbreaker, Akashic, and Empath connections. Only the Healer connection has any closeness to the old Pathfinder cleric.If Paizo really wanted the Mystic not to be the Space Cleric, they wouldn't have given them all the healing powers.
Lots of things that aren't clerics can heal to one degree or another in Paizo's settings. Witches, druids, occultists, spiritualists, and mesmerists are all in the same setting as the cleric and three of them are psychic rather than divine. None of them rely on a god's power or approval.
Which makes sense, because psychics fit better with science fiction than clerics do.What? All major science fiction is loaded with religion.
Religion that provides mental or magic powers? No. Mental powers that are associated with religion-like aspects? (e.g. the jedi, the bene gesserit) Sometimes. Powers/magic associated with real deities? Rarely!
And that you could say that "all" "major" science fiction is "loaded" with religion shows you have a bizarrely narrow experience with science fiction.
A Mystic doesn't have to be a Cleric. They can be an ascetic monk, or a witch, or a psion.Yeah, except for the "always with the knowledge that you are a conduit channeling forces greater than yourself", which doesn't match the fluff of a monk or psion at all, but sorta matches the Pathfinder witch, except for the lack of familiars.
An engineer building a windmill, waterwheel, turbine, or nuclear reactor is channeling forces greater than himself, using physical medium rather than himself as the conduit, but he's not experiencing religion while he does it. And pathfinder psychic casters, unlike third party psions, do not rely on internal power. They channel outside forces through their discipline (psychics), resonances in items (occultists), astral echoes of legends (mediums), astral energies (mesmerists), or outside spiritual remnants (spiritualists).
I am fascinated by the intersection of your confidence and the clear limits of your conceptual experience on this subject.
Oh boy.
Lots of things that aren't clerics can heal to one degree or another in Paizo's settings. Witches, druids, occultists, spiritualists, and mesmerists are all in the same setting as the cleric and three of them are psychic rather than divine. None of them rely on a god's power or approval.
I guess we aren't even talking about Starfinder anymore.
Religion that provides mental or magic powers? No. Mental powers that are associated with religion-like aspects? (e.g. the jedi, the bene gesserit) Sometimes. Powers/magic associated with real deities? Rarely!
I only said Religion, but if you want to play the misquote game, suit yourself.
Midichlorians, energy that permeates the universe, that's not my definition of mental powers.
And that you could say that "all" "major" science fiction is "loaded" with religion shows you have a bizarrely narrow experience with science fiction.
Thanks for the input, very useful.
An engineer building a windmill, waterwheel, turbine, or nuclear reactor is channeling forces greater than himself, using...
That's such a weird comparison, I don't even know where to go. I guess I'm not channeling my argumentative powers properly.
I am fascinated by the intersection of your confidence and the clear limits of your conceptual experience on this subject
I'm fascinated by condescending trash talk that is completely pointless to the topic.
Let's end this here, I'm sure the OP got some nice opinions and informations before this bantering and can make a decision already.
I'd like to know what it is and how it went in the game, but they rarely come back to report.
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So this turned into a very heated argument that I didn't really want.
I'm sorry this is a point of contention for you, Ragi, but I don't see "channeling forces greater than oneself" as an inherent cause for religion. It can be asceticism or spiritualism which is related but not the same. It can be having some sort of personal or organic affinity to a cosmic force as intelligent and deific as gravity or strong nuclear force (in before gravity is now a new goddess). Religiousness is just far too narrow to accurately encompass the Mystic class fluff as written. I don't know if I can help you understand the framework I'm working with, but I think a proper discussion on "what a Mystic is" and how they might relate to religion or devoutness deserves its own thread, not this one.
I do appreciate everyone's advice so far, and I will be repeatedly checking back in with updates on how it goes for a little while. Both when the character is finished and for the first couple sessions (it's a fortnightly game).
@Ragi Your specific biohacker suggestion was something I actually really wanted to pursue once you made me aware of the playtest characters. I am petitioning the GM to let me use the playtest material, but I'm unsure if that will be successful yet. It's technically an official class, but the GM typically doesn't sign off on things unless they can read it in a first-party book (and October is aaaages away now).
I'll probably stat up a Mystic (Geneturge or Star Shaman) or a Mystic/Biohacker multiclass if the playtest material is OKed. Everyone will get to pore over both potential character sheets by Monday.