Is weapon focus / versitile focus worth it as a soldier (and other suggestions)?


Advice


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I know I made a different thread earlier, but I figured it would be better to start anew regarding this.

What I have right now is as follows:

Ikeshti bombard soldier

16 str
14 dex
12 con
12 int
8 wis
10 cha

we're starting lvl one, and while I have one of those sonic powerfists for now, I plan on focusing on unarmed strikes for my melee option (meaning stuff like ring of fangs, improved unarmed strike, and raw lethality), and for ranged, probably those shock casters and then eventually a rocket launcher. I went bombard primarily for using the hybrid grenades along with some of the utility ones, but melee is going to be my primary focus. The setting has some restricted healing (mostly no mystic and limited hp healing), so that was why I bumped by con up a little at the expense of having a 14 dex, but I wonder if that is really necessary as well.

Now for the main question, should I get the feats weapon focus and versatile focus, and if so, should I get it asap? I looked at the feats, and they seems like they're designed more to help lesser bab classes hit things.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Bonuses to hit are not that common in Starfinder, and weapon focus is absolutely useful for a soldier. You may not necessarily need it asap, but you probably want it.

If you plan to focus on melee attacks, you want it even more, because you can't take advantage of weapon accessories to reduce your full attack penalty, and you will want to use your full attacks, to translate your full BAB into damage more effectively.

Versatile focus might not be something you need, if all your ranged weapons are unwieldy things with the explode property, since weapon focus doesn't increase your dc in the way that penalties reduce it.


Weapon focus is absolutely worth it. Hit is hard to come by in this game. Weapon focus "thing i swing most"

You may not need raw lethality if you're picking up a ring of fangs

linky

Whether versatile focus is worth it is going to depend on how often you wind up switching weapons. This is very campaign, group, and character dependant so there's not much anyone could do without being there. It

It will be worth slightly less to you because your number one ranged option is a grenade, and even at level 1 you hit the helpless intersection on a roll of a 2. Your BAB alone will more than cover any ranged penalties you could get.

So you'll have to see how often someone is far enough away from you that you wind up pulling out a laser rifle instead of throwing a grenade at them instead of shooting them first.

If you don't have HP healing you're probably going to want toughness right after weapon focus.


I would (and did, on my soldier) take versatile focus. It isn’t like soldiers are starving for feats, and eventually you’ll want another melee weapon handy, if no other reason than you can enchant it up to be helpful in cases where your fists aren’t doing the job.

Exo-Guardians

For your build, I would definitely go with at least Weapon Focus (Advanced Melee Weapons).

I personally never got around to taking Weapon Focus because I was preoccupied with stuff like:

Coordinated Shot (+1 to all my shooter buddies)
Close Combat (squeezing more AC out is always good)
Skill Synergy (Perception/Engineering)
Step Up (terrible, but required for the next one)
Step Up & Strike (rarely activates, but when it does, it's classic)
Enhanced Resistance (essential)
Improved Unarmed Strike (Vesk gonna Vesk)
Lightning Reflexes (Soldiers forget how to dodge in the future)

I make up for the lack of Weapon Focus by having completely maximum Strength (23 at 7th level), though the shine on this fades by about 5th level.

It probably isn't the most maximized build, but it is a lot of fun.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

With the focus on unarmed strikes, weapon focus: basic melee would be more called for, I think.

Sovereign Court

Step Up isn't terrible. It says "you can't use a Guarded Step to deny me my next Full Attack". After the enemy has already wasted the action. It's not amazing but it's got use.

I absolutely take Weapon Focus (my primary thing). I like Versatile Focus because then I don't have to worry about whether a given weapon is in the right group to apply Focus.

For a Bombard soldier Versatile Focus is particularly good because you're encouraged to use a variety of weapons (heavy weapon to take advantage of strength with your level 5 ability, melee weapon to take advantage of strength, grenades).


Weapon (Versatile) Focus doesn't apply to Explode weapon. Or, to be more accurate, only to the DC 5 attack roll, which is a 2+ with or without Weapon Focus after level 2.

As a DM, I apply Versatile Focus to starship weapons. Without that, I find this feat a bit underwhelming, especially if you have ways to choose your equipment (Starfinder Society for example) and as such you know you won't end up with a good weapon in the wrong category.
The kind of feat I'll take at high levels on a standard Soldier build.

Weapon focus, on the other hand, is a first pick on most of my weapon characters (unless they need Proficiency and Specialization).

Dataphiles

HammerJack wrote:
With the focus on unarmed strikes, weapon focus: basic melee would be more called for, I think.

BluLion was talking about using Pulse Gauntlets instead of unarmed strikes, which are Advanced Melee Weapons.

One fun random fact about Versatile Weapon Focus: it is the only way to get a Weapon Focus bonus on a Junksword. The Junksword spell gives proficiency with the Junksword, but it is not itself described as a basic or advanced melee weapon.

Thus, you can't choose it as a category when selecting a Weapon Focus, but if you take Versatile Weapon Focus, you get focus in every weapon that you are proficient in.

And that is why my melee technomancer has Versatile Weapon Focus.


Step up is a little meh. Most of the bad guys that you're worried about have a decent melee option. Unlike pathfinder, non casting bad guys can be big bads in starfinder, so the number of things stepping away from you is greatly reduced.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've seen a number of players and GMs in Starfinder Society who swear by Step Up.

Sovereign Court

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Ravingdork wrote:
I've seen a number of players and GMs in Starfinder Society who swear by Step Up.

I think the asymmetry of typical encounters works against it. It's good when you're strong in melee and someone else is trying to Guarded Step away from you to cast spells or fire a gun, and you want to make a Full Attack next turn.

The problems are:
* Generally encounters are against higher-CR enemies that will just melee attack back instead of stepping back.
* Touch spells mostly don't provoke so if you're standing near a technomancer, expect to be zapped.

I have it, and it's being a bit disappointing.

Exo-Guardians

Generally you're better off just having a Reach weapon, so you let them step away and still jack them in the face if they try to cast or shoot.

I think I used it only once or twice with Zoggy before getting Step Up & Strike; it's still pretty uncommonly used, but it is invaluable when it does trigger; I mostly use it to move next to someone and shut down their action because they realize that it would be a bad idea.


Ravingdork wrote:
I've seen a number of players and GMs in Starfinder Society who swear by Step Up.

That doesn't necessarily mean its effective, note. Doubly so with the existence of years of standard practice from Pathfinder. Cargo cults exist for a reason.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Cargo cults?


Ravingdork wrote:
Cargo cults?

There's a wikpedia page for them. It's a very extreme case of misattributing cause and effect. During WWII aircraft brought "cargo" (stuff the islanders would sometimes receive as gifts or in trade) to the GIs via temporary airfields, so after they left the islanders would build ersatz air strips in the delusion that the gods (or whoever) would deliver more cargo.

Just because a culture (here, PFS participants) swear by a particular practice doesn't mean it's actually doing anything or can do anything.


Exactly. I don't know if there are any formal studies of tactics and behavior in table top gaming, but I know the topic *has* been studied in video games. You can completely change, not only the usage rates, but the *win/loss rates*, for a given character or mechanic just by announced the fact of a nerf or buff. . . even absent any actual change at all.

Basically, people are really, really bad at perceiving objective reality. Its why you need scientific rigor in order to be sure that what you know actually is so.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have step up, and step up and strike, as a solar weapon solarian. It's basically only useful for mopping up mooks, and limiting enemy caster options, but it's *very* effective at that.

When my GM has a caster who isn't just a touch spell machine, Step Up and Strike is gruesome. It makes me feel bad about how effective it is.

Against mooks with guns it's like getting an extra half turn every round.

I don't know how everyone else's games play out, but those feats pay dividends for me.

Exo-Guardians

I ( a bombardier soldier) took both of those feats for a number of reasons. One is that I use a multitude of different weapons. I don't use just heavy weapons. I use heavy weapons, grenades, long arms, and two-handed melee advanced weapons. Every bonus to hit helps because I want to be sure especially since I'm tossing explosions around that I am going to hit my target. Since I am using both strength and dexterity based attacks buffing one score isn't going to buff my attack rolls universally. For that reason I took weapon focus in the weapon that I considered my primary weapon, and then versatile focus to account for everything else when I was able to.

Also the fact that there's actually not that many combat feats to choose from right now means that there really wasn't a whole lot of alternatives. Hoping for more options in splat books and the like going forward.

Level five is when you will be able to take enhanced resistance and as a soldier with a full progression for base attack bonus, enhance resistance is a lifesaver. If you're going to be up in melee a lot then I would recommend choosing damage reduction with your enhanced resistance.

Scarab Sages Starfinder Design Lead

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The value of Step Up, without Step Up and Strike, can depend on so many things it's hard to judge it's solo utility.

For example, if you have Step Up and Coordinated Shot, being able to step up may mean continuing to grant all your ranged allies +1 to hit against a foe who isn't moving away to avoid an AoO but to reduce bonuses against it.

If you have Close Combat, staying next to the target can impact your AC against other attackers, which can make a big difference.

If you have both, obviously the number of possible benefits increases.

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