Hello, I am wanting to do a game with a twist from the many normal games
There are a few campaign ideas I've had in my head for a long while now and want to try one of them out before I think of anymore.
Pending the one that has the most interest I'll start setting up the recruitment thread with it's Character Creation Rules and Level the game will start at.
Experimental Game ideas:
I've thought several times about running an all bard game. BBS sounds interesting...
I'm very interested in the all monster game, and actually have some of the dreamscarred press classes. Would you be willing to also include Rite's publishing monster classes? Their make a dragon classes is stellar, that's not counting their fey, giant,treant and even gelatinous cube class.
PrC, Subterfuge, and Shadow Walkers all sound cool- something like a superhero game? Could be interesting. AMP also sounds cool, and BBS sounds like an interesting challenge. Would Bloodragers also be permitted?
I like Prestige Classes. I wish PF had more that weren’t either A) Legacies from 3.5 that are a bit wonky in PF (Eldritch Knight, Arcane Archer, etc) or B) Incredibly niche ideas that only work in narrowly tailored campaigns (Arclord of Nex, Bloatmage, Shackles Pirate, etc). Something I’ve though about before is free gestalt of prestige classes. Say you’re a Magus. Once you qualify for Eldritch Knight, you can become a Gestalt Magus/Eldritch Knight. That obviates one of the biggest issues with PrCs: losing class features like Arcane Pool Points, Magus Arcana, etc. So I’d definitely be down for the first idea. Maybe some of the others.
I'm very interested in the all monster game, and actually have some of the dreamscarred press classes. Would you be willing to also include Rite's publishing monster classes? Their make a dragon classes is stellar, that's not counting their fey, giant,treant and even gelatinous cube class.
For most part I'll be saying No as I'll be needing to review it, and I'll likely only give a thumbs up to only a few that I own myself.
PrC, Subterfuge, and Shadow Walkers all sound cool- something like a superhero game? Could be interesting. AMP also sounds cool, and BBS sounds like an interesting challenge. Would Bloodragers also be permitted?
They Kinda do sound super hero-ish, but the Subterfuge is more James Bond-ish
For BBS, Bloodrager is Not an option.
I like Prestige Classes. I wish PF had more that weren’t either A) Legacies from 3.5 that are a bit wonky in PF (Eldritch Knight, Arcane Archer, etc) or B) Incredibly niche ideas that only work in narrowly tailored campaigns (Arclord of Nex, Bloatmage, Shackles Pirate, etc). Something I’ve though about before is free gestalt of prestige classes. Say you’re a Magus. Once you qualify for Eldritch Knight, you can become a Gestalt Magus/Eldritch Knight. That obviates one of the biggest issues with PrCs: losing class features like Arcane Pool Points, Magus Arcana, etc. So I’d definitely be down for the first idea. Maybe some of the others.
Yeah as soon as Archetypes hit the scene everyone decided to skip PrCs.
For the PrC Power and Shadow Walkers Ideas, they can include PrCs from some 3.5 Books a few of Which I have updated myself to PF power levels.
Thanks for the link. BBS might be interesting to me. What's the starting level/gold/point-buy?
Point buy will always be 20,
but Level, and starting coin will be based on what is selected.
Seems all ideas are pretty much all balanced at a quick glance....
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I'm intrigued by PrC Power. How do you envision this one working? Would they be like archetypes, except you don't swap class features?
Take Arcane Archer for example. The requirements are:
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
Would someone pick a base class (e.g. wizard), and gain the arcane archer class features along side the wizard class features?
PrC sounds interesting, as does BBS.
Would a Vox Mesmerist be allowed for the BBS game? I'm thinking lead singer role... :)
I'm intrigued by PrC Power. How do you envision this one working? Would they be like archetypes, except you don't swap class features?
Take Arcane Archer for example. The requirements are:
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.Would someone pick a base class (e.g. wizard), and gain the arcane archer class features along side the wizard class features?
As was in the OP for PrC Power, the PrC requirements are Reduced or Completely removed and function as Normal, No Class Gestalt/Parallelism will happen.
So some PrCs will still need for the player to take One or Two Core/Base class levels to get either a Class Feature require and or a spell caster's spells.
Using Arcane Archer as an Example the Updated requirements would be
BAB Requirement is now +1
Feats: Point-Blank Shot
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
In this example you could take one Wizard Level, One Fighter Level, then take NOTHING, but the Arcane Archer by itself.
PrC sounds interesting, as does BBS.
Would a Vox Mesmerist be allowed for the BBS game? I'm thinking lead singer role... :)
BBS is Barbarians Bards and Skalds Only, No other Classes allowed.
Out of curiosity what Dreamscarred press monster class book do you happen to own?
So for the Shadow walkers... would that kinda be like everyone is a vigilante, with their prestige class being the vigilante mode? How would you envision that one working?
Also, as a side bar question, do you have a specific campaign in mind that you would want to run with these fun rules or were you thinking more of a homebrew campaign?
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I'm intrigued by PrC Power. How do you envision this one working? Would they be like archetypes, except you don't swap class features?
Take Arcane Archer for example. The requirements are:
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.Would someone pick a base class (e.g. wizard), and gain the arcane archer class features along side the wizard class features?
As was in the OP for PrC Power, the PrC requirements are Reduced or Completely removed and function as Normal, No Class Gestalt/Parallelism will happen.
So some PrCs will still need for the player to take One or Two Core/Base class levels to get either a Class Feature require and or a spell caster's spells.
Using Arcane Archer as an Example the Updated requirements would be
BAB Requirement is now +1
Feats: Point-Blank Shot
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.In this example you could take one Wizard Level, One Fighter Level, then take NOTHING, but the Arcane Archer by itself.
Gotcha. I love this idea. I'm running Iron Gods for one group and am going to start Carrion Crown for another. I might steal this idea. It certainly makes PrCs more interesting.
Out of curiosity what Dreamscarred press monster class book do you happen to own?
I own ALL the Monster Class Books from Dreamscarred press.
So for the Shadow walkers... would that kinda be like everyone is a vigilante, with their prestige class being the vigilante mode? How would you envision that one working?
Also, as a side bar question, do you have a specific campaign in mind that you would want to run with these fun rules or were you thinking more of a homebrew campaign?
For Shadow walkers
Since it is More PrC Based, you Opt for PrCs that can be used to Hide your Identity;i.e. Ghost Faced Killer, Master Spy, Master Chemist, Veiled Illusionist, Twilight Talon, etc
An Example could be that Since the Ghost Faced Killer PrC only requires PowerAttack, that Everyone could be a Ghost faced Killer,
but everyone starts with two levels in a different Class to assist in disguising who they are.
As for the Side bar, Each Idea has a preselected Module that'll be modded to fit the game, if the game is strong I'll keep it going past the module.
Gotcha. I love this idea. I'm running Iron Gods for one group and am going to start Carrion Crown for another. I might steal this idea. It certainly makes PrCs more interesting.I'm intrigued by PrC Power. How do you envision this one working? Would they be like archetypes, except you don't swap class features?
Take Arcane Archer for example. The requirements are:
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Feats: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow).
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.Would someone pick a base class (e.g. wizard), and gain the arcane archer class features along side the wizard class features?
As was in the OP for PrC Power, the PrC requirements are Reduced or Completely removed and function as Normal, No Class Gestalt/Parallelism will happen.
So some PrCs will still need for the player to take One or Two Core/Base class levels to get either a Class Feature require and or a spell caster's spells.
Using Arcane Archer as an Example the Updated requirements would be
BAB Requirement is now +1
Feats: Point-Blank Shot
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.In this example you could take one Wizard Level, One Fighter Level, then take NOTHING, but the Arcane Archer by itself.
Not only more interesting, but More accessible.
Though Feats that are used by the PrC should be retained as Much as possible, and skill requirements lowered by 4 to 6.
Excellent, I have a couple of them myself.
Since I now Have a Moment Time to Tally (since folks can vote for Multiple interests)
PrC Power: 4
BBS: 4
Subterfuge: 1
Shadow Walkers: 2
AMP: 2
Dotting for BBS or AMP.
Since I now Have a Moment Time to Tally (since folks can vote for Multiple interests)
PrC Power: 5
BBS: 4
Subterfuge: 1
Shadow Walkers: 2
AMP: 3
From 9 interested parties
hm.... PrC or BBS would be my interests.... shadow walker is interesting, but not quite my style.
The more you talk about it the more I like Shadow Walkers, so please withdraw my BBS interest for Shadow Walkers :)
(Would it be ok in SW to take Assassin and then Master Spy?)
The more you talk about it the more I like Shadow Walkers, so please withdraw my BBS interest for Shadow Walkers :)
(Would it be ok in SW to take Assassin and then Master Spy?)
Assassin would likely be the Only PrC I would not allow as I run Non-Evil Campaigns and the Alignment requirement for Assassin is any Evil.
Ghost Faced Killer can be a Assassin substitute.
Its mostly about getting Death Attack so that the master spy levels could stack with it without having to get level 8 first.
What is Ghost Faced Killer? The only one I can find online is from Fortogtten Realms and requires you to be evil again.
BBS (Barbarian, Bard, and Skald are the Only classes allowed)
Why those specific three?
If we can be interested in multiples, I’ll throw in BBS and Shadow Walkers as possibilities for me. PrC Power is definitely my #1, though.
Its mostly about getting Death Attack so that the master spy levels could stack with it without having to get level 8 first.
What is Ghost Faced Killer? The only one I can find online is from Fortogtten Realms and requires you to be evil again.
Must of Mixed it's alignment requirements with another PrC that had Non-Evil as a requirement.....
The Ghost Faced Killer found on Page 52 of Complete Adventurer does have Evil as a requirement BUT the Adaption paragraph notes that the Ghost faced Killer could be used as a Force for Good.
The Ghost Faced Killer has been Updated to PF by Myself.
Why those specific three?BBS (Barbarian, Bard, and Skald are the Only classes allowed)
1: Bards are the ONLY class that can Cover ALL four roles; Divine, Arcane, Skilled, and Assault. So in theory an All Bard group would work, but are not durable for Assault roles and that is where Point 2 comes in.
2: Barbarians Like Bards from 3.5 had the Same Alignment requirements so completely alignment compatable, that and Barbarians are the ONLY Core class with a d12 HD and Has DR to soak up Damage and Survive easily and they have a Fort Save all thing Bards Lack to be in the Assault role.
3: Skald are basically Bards, but tilted more towards an Assault role But only have a slightly better AC then Bards, and the Rage Song gives Barbarians More Rage Time, as the Total Rage Time per day in PF is Much Shorter compared to 3.5.
Why those specific three?BBS (Barbarian, Bard, and Skald are the Only classes allowed) 1: Bards are the ONLY class that can Cover ALL four roles; Divine, Arcane, Skilled, and Assault. So in theory an All Bard group would work, but are not durable for Assault roles and that is where Point 2 comes in.
2: Barbarians Like Bards from 3.5 had the Same Alignment requirements so completely alignment compatable, that and Barbarians are the ONLY Core class with a d12 HD and Has DR to soak up Damage and Survive easily and they have a Fort Save all thing Bards Lack to be in the Assault role.
3: Skald are basically Bards, but tilted more towards an Assault role But only have a slightly better AC then Bards, and the Rage Song gives Barbarians More Rage Time, as the Total Rage Time per day in PF is Much Shorter compared to 3.5.
So I had a question on this one... why not bloodragers as well? Similar payload to barbarian with a bit more arcane flair... seems to me it would be a good fit for that kind of group (heck, the acronym just gets an extra b... making it B3S) but not my game, not my rules. Just my thoughts on it... totally would make a bloodrager for it if allowed though, ;)
Trying to Stick to the Two Core Classes only adding a Hybrid of the Two.
That and Barbarian tends to be completely Ignored now that Bloodrager is on the Scene.
As I have found when players are offered a choice between Barbarian and Bloodrager next to all pick Bloodrager.
To officially cast my vote, I think I'd want to go with either PrC Power or BBS.
Thought it through, AMP could be combined with;
PrC Power (PrC's have requirements reduced or voided, and are required.)
Subterfuge (Requires hiding identity as you fight as getting caught may spill the beans on the group)
And
Shadow Walkers (A Combo of Super PrC and Subterfuge ideas).
Could hit two birds with one stone....
So I might combine AMP with any of the above, I just need to know if folks would be interested in that.
Also I should hint at the starting levels of Each choice.
BBS: 1->4
Subterfuge: 3->7
PrC Power: 5->9
Shadow Walkers: 5->9
AMP: 6+
Subterfuge sounds like hella fun.
Well if AMP and PrC can be combined, that's a win win for me.
Since I now Have a Moment Time to Tally (since folks can vote for Multiple interests)
PrC Power: 8
BBS: 6
Subterfuge: 2
Shadow Walkers: 4
AMP: 3
From 10 interested parties.
I would be interested in PrC Power.
PrC power could be interesting. I think trying to combine it with BBS would be counter productive. One is about opening up character possibilities and the other is about limiting them. (I don't remember if that was an idea or not now that I think of it.)
I would be down for PrC or PrC AMP.
I like the idea of a viking-style game for BBS maybe with an Honor system or something too.
Up for BBS or AMP
Question, if we do go with PrC will you be making a case by case ruling on what the new prereqs for the PrCs are? I ask because I already have ideas flowing, but I don't want to go too far down a road without knowing where the on and off ramps are.
Question, if we do go with PrC will you be making a case by case ruling on what the new prereqs for the PrCs are? I ask because I already have ideas flowing, but I don't want to go too far down a road without knowing where the on and off ramps are.
The New prereqs would be easy to basically figure out;
Reduce skills to about 2 ranksReduce Feats to 1 or 2 (if 4+ feats were originally required)
Keep Alignment Requirements
Special Requirements would be kept, but Lowered as needed on a Case by Case Base. So a need for 1st level arcane spells means you need a level in an arcane casting core/base class.
PrC power could be interesting. I think trying to combine it with BBS would be counter productive. One is about opening up character possibilities and the other is about limiting them. (I don't remember if that was an idea or not now that I think of it.)
I would be down for PrC or PrC AMP.
PrC Power was for putting PrCs to use since they've been abandoned when Archetypes came in.
BBS was an experiment in working with very few class options but ones that can work together.
So by way of an example I was looking at Pain Taster
Feats would probably go down to Endurance and Great Fortitude (since Diehard has a prereq of Endurance) Skills drop to 2 ranks like you said, and I am guessing the save DC requirements would be watered down a little to make them somewhat attainable for a lv2 character (as opposed to a level 5?)
I didn't mention the Books one could use for PrC's yet, so I'll let it be know now.
Only Core, APG, Paths of Prestage, and Paths of the Righteous, the rest Require Asking first,
and If it involves Occult class features or from those occult books drop them off the list as I really dislike those classes and Books.
3.5 PrCs from the first 4 Complete Books and FrostBurn can be used after it is Upgraded.
Also after reading Pain Taster, I would edit the Alignment to Evil thus Non-useable.
Alright, I'll throw my hat into the PrC option as well. I've always wanted to roll up a Devoted Muse.
Since I now Have a Moment Time to Tally (since folks can vote for Multiple interests)
PrC Power: 11
BBS: 7
Subterfuge: 2
Shadow Walkers: 4
AMP: 3
From 13 interested parties.
Alright Seems PrC power has the Over Majority for the past 3 days, so it'll be PrC Power.
Now I need to ask how many are Interested with AMP being added to it?
Or Allowing it as an Option for players?
Edit: I'll allow Monster classes as an option...
I'll likely start making the Recruitment Post Tomorrow.
If you have requests for PrCs outside of the 4 Named Books; Core, APG, Paths of Prestage, and Paths of the Righteous. Please post them so I can quickly review them.