So I'm playing a Green Knight in a homebrew, and there's this line of text that's been sitting wrong with me all this time. I believe either the author misinterpreted an ability, or there's a small typo, because the ability would otherwise give way too big a bonus for this archetype:
Beast Tongue (Ex): A green knight can use Diplomacy to improve an animal’s attitude. Beast tongue otherwise functions like the druid’s wild empathy ability, using the green knight’s Diplomacy modifier and using her cavalier level as her effective druid level, and it counts as that ability for the purpose of other effects (such as feat prerequisites or effects that alter or improve wild empathy).
Wild Empathy (Ex): A druid can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The druid rolls 1d20 and adds her druid level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. (...)
Emphasis mine. Regular Wild Empathy would just be Druid level + CHA, but as written the Green Knight would use their Diplomacy modifier. I know something's up, because this way, as quoted, the Cavalier's level would do nothing in this equation. Furthermore, using their Diplomacy modifier is way better than just level + CHA.
I mean, to me (and my GM) it's clear that I should just look at how Wild Empathy works from the Druid, not use what the archetype says, but I'd like to hear from the Paizo hivemind just in case. I just find it strange this wasn't picked up sooner.
'Diplomacy modifier' is indeed a strange term.
One way of reading it would be all the bonuses but the ranks, so the Beast tongue role would be Cavalier Level + Bonuses to Diplomacy (everything but actual ranks) making it better than the druid version.
That said, it is most likely a typo and the Beast Tongue should say charisma modifier.
In my experience, wild empathy is very seldom used so it probably won't matter much however you decide to run it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm going to agree that it's probably a simple mistake and that it's supposed to be Charisma mod. I don't think anyone actually bothered to proofread Ultimate Wilderness, so it's very likely.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
We have been running it as "you can influence animals via an ordinary diplomacy check". So the Green Knight, unlike the Druid, needs to actually invest in Diplomacy but also, unlike the druid, can benefit from something like "student of philosophy" which changes how diplomacy checks work.
In this case the "treat your cavalier level as your druid level is superfluous.
The ability uses the cavalier's Diplomacy modifier, just as it appears in the Skills section of the character sheet. This overrides the equation normally used to determine a druid or ranger's wild empathy modifier, similarly to how a bard's versatile performance ability overrides other skill modifiers as appropriate.
The "effective druid level" portion was added in development, if I recall correctly, so I'm not sure exactly what it's meant to do. You'll have to inquire with them for that. ^_^
The "effective druid level" portion was added in development, if I recall correctly, so I'm not sure exactly what it's meant to do. You'll have to inquire with them for that. ^_^
I'm guessing they wanted to switch it to working on effective Druid level + Charisma mod, but forgot to change the word Diplomacy to Charisma.