I'm putting a group together for Second Darkness (and have had a lot if unfortunate ghosting which has me annoyed). So far, two players have completed their characters, and it's likely looking that the other two players are going to be new to Pathfinder (or tabletops in general).
So the two players with completed characters are a Tiefling Abyssal Bloodline Sorcerer with the basics kind of spells (Mage Armor and Magic Missile to start), and an Unchained Summoner with a Protean subtype Eidolon specializing in Grab/Constrict tactics early.
As these other two players are new, (or likely going to be if the ghosting pattern continues) I don't want to suggest anything too complicated, or force them into a missing party role. That said, I think a Cleric or Warpriest is a good suggestion, and possibly some form of Fighter or Barbarian?
I don't want to get too complex on archtypes with new players, because it's a lot for them to digest. Some have 5e experience I can build off of, so I may have an easier time explaining more complex stuff, but I don't want to rely on what they will/will not understand.
So what are some good suggestions?
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Keep it simple and thematic, Isaac, per your plan. The two experienced players both do some Battlefield Control. Seems like you should provide one Dedicated Hammer/Main Tank and one Support Caster/Secondary Hammer.
Option A) Uncultured Barbarian, any race - Basic no-frills barbarian. Optimize only slightly more than an Iconic PC. Make strange in some weird way specially tailored to appeal to player(s).
Option B) Cultured Knight, human
Provide a built-in multi-classing option. Don't even TELL the player about this at the start. Or ever. Unless the player asks.
E.g. It always bothered Darryl that, just because he was big and looked mean, people assumed he was stupid. Given his druthers Darryl would spend all his time reading. The world had other plans for Darryl. Darryl's obvious size, strength, and athletic ability put him on the path of the Fighter. Darryl keeps his intelligence, and his reading habit, solidly in the closet. Darryl is a retired military veteran who mustered out as a low-rank NCO, perhaps equivalent to Sargeant or Corporal.
Darryl is a vanilla Fighter with an unusually high intelligence. Perhaps, as a special perk, give Darryl the Knack of always-on Read Magic. This should come up in play, as Darryl has never seen magic writing.
The concept is that the players is all-Fighter but has the option to dip Wizard later, should the player then want to. But don't mention this!!!! Leave it as a puzzle for the player to work out over time, as a journey of self-discovery.
Start Darryl with suitable arms and armor. As a Scholarship Fighter he'll be military-trained to fight as heavy infantry. If your campaign is set in ancient times this likely means polearms. Axe/spear/sword and shield later becomes a later battlefield option, although it's kinda mean to gimp the character that hard. If your campaign is set in an era where plate armor exists then polearms again dominate.
Perhaps start Darryl with slightly above-normal-wealth armor and weapons. That way Darryl avoids the 'gotta upgrade my armor' thing the very first time PCs earn any money. Give Darryl's player access to info about Darryl's kit. For a fighter, understanding your own kit is non-trivial and quite important.
Perhaps start Darryl with a well-worn suit of masterwork military-grade brigandine armor [Youtube] (value 350 gp, stats per Splint Mail, which wasn't a real thing), complete with gambeson, riveted mail, and helmet. Perhaps provide player with a link to what the armor is, to assist with RP. E.g. Player learns about donning and doffing armor.
STR:17 DEX:14 CON:14 INT:15 WIS:10 CHA:9
Primary battlefield weapons: Lucerne Hammer
Sidearms: cutlass, dagger, & throwing axe
Feats: Combat reflexes (H), Power Attack (1st)
Point out that your Battlefield Weapons are things you leave back at the inn when you go out carousing ...
A) Vanilla Cleric of Desna
STR:15 DEX:12 CON:14 INT:10 WIS:16 CHA:12
Domains: Luck and Travel
(player may eventually learn to use Bit of Luck on the Fighter just before the Fighter is about to roll a lot of D20s)
Feats: Your call. Not Selective Channeling. Observant players will note absence of Combat Reflexes and take that at 3rd level. Because it's obviously been working for the Fighter.
Background up to you.
Primary battlefield weapon: longspear
Sidearms: club, special desna throwing star
Point out that your Battlefield Weapons are things you leave back at the inn when you go out carousing ...
Describe the Domain Powers in friendly terms:
Bit of Luck - touch an ally and give them short-duration good luck. Uses your Standard Action.
Ignore difficult terrain
Provide a default prepared spell list that also lists common alternates
E.g.
Spells prepared (chosen from entire Pathfinder Cleric spell list): Bless, OPEN SLOT
Not prepared, but known:
Protection From Evil, Summon Monster I, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, etc
Channel Energy - description
B) Vanilla healbot cleric. Just use the iconic cleric Kyra. P.s. One of my favorite PFS options is to play Kyra, only get her a longspear and swap out her lousy spells for Summon Monster. This is possible in some PFS adventures, while others don't give you the option to buy a 2 gp item or to change spells. The longspear-wielding played-as-summoner Kyra is a lot more effective than the standard iconic ;-)
C) Vanilla bard, suited for melee. Built & Equipped as you think best.
Let the new players gradually figure out how to be most effective. Start out gently and gradually up the difficulty once they understand how things work.
Perhaps PCs witness a battle of pike and shot versus cavalry. This video also introduces gunslingers in an early-gun setting, opening that as a more-likely class for another day.
Later introduce a combat ambush situation where several weak (bad AC & low HP) foes rush the party from close, with surprise. Players always get nervous in an ambush. Only to have our Combat Reflexes fighter passively skewer several while still flatfooted. Do this at least twice and I'll give good odds that the cleric chooses Combat Reflexes as a 3rd level feat ...
Similarly, for each thing you want the new players to learn, have a little encounter to both entertain and educate.
E.g. Introduce the concept of a Wizard's Spellbook. A 1st level spell book is fine, and might utterly fascinate Darryl and plant the seeds of a future multiclass. Introduce stuff like Arcane Failure in Armor and the various spell casting mechanics.
E.g. Provide your cleric with a decent prepared spell list always leaves one spell slot open. Let the player learn the full spell list over time. Introduce a situation where "gosh we sure wish the cleric had prepared X spell". Help the cleric figure out, "Ooh, I can prepare that spell in 10 minutes". This is basic play-your-class stuff that is easily missed.
E.g. Have a race or chase situation. Introduce difficult terrain they must pass through. Cleric of Desna should shine.
About a year ago, I had two PC's join our group who were brand new to TTRPG's and both of them picked complicated classes (Druid & Vitalist), and now they're extremely proficient. I don't think it matters what class you start with tbh, everything is complicated in the beginning, even Fighters are complicated for someone who never played before. Throw them in the deep end of the pool with floaties imo :)
I've had new players before, so a lot of your suggestions are appreciated and some I already had in mind. I don't think I'm going to go the "build the character for them" route, as that's never been my style. I always find that when you make a character yourself you hold a greater attachment to it.
My initial plan was indeed to ask what they're aiming for and make suggestions, I suppose I was just more largely worried about the fact the party is currently 2 arcane casters and I'm running one of the classic APs so old it's still written with 3.5e skills instead of Pathfinder ones. I'm concerned it'll ask for a level of specialization from the party that'll be sorely missing if the other two wanna play say a Wizard and a Magus. Having read the first book, there's some pretty high CR challenges which should be more than manageable.
I've also on top of my two being casters, they're both Charisma-based casters, and a Kitsune and Rakshasa Tiefling. The two aren't hurting in the social skills department (even the Eidolon has chosen mostly social skills).
Essentially if one of the newer players just doesn't know, it sounds like skills, healing, and strong melee/tank are the three major niches that can be filled so the player can't really be overshadowed and feel they aren't contributing.
So major additional suggestions might be Bard then as heal/skills with a Fighter/Barb as the other, a Warpriest with a Rogue to cover it another way, and maybe a Cleric and Slayer.
The word Open Locks shows up a lot in book 1, and I don't want them to be hard stopped by that, so I either need to recommend a Disable Device character or else one with enough brawn to break down doors. Though the Sorc could take Knock at level 3 if things are desperate. (I almost wish he were playing a wizard cause I could just drop a Scroll as a heavy hint and have it be multi-use.)
A well played summoner can be worth two characters at low levels. And can often cover tanking fairly well. So the party will probably be fine.
I find that most new players want to be fighters of some type, since that’s the typical fantasy hero. I’d have them say what kind of character they want to be and then make characters for them based off that. Throw broad “archetypes” at them, like “sneaky” or “archer” or “healer”, but try to get more out of them than just that simple concept. First timers sometimes even prefer to grab one of the pregen characters and personalize them.
If they are lacking in some part of the AP, then you will just need to figure out an alternative route to success.
I was just more largely worried about the fact the party is currently 2 arcane casters and I'm running one of the classic APs so old it's still written with 3.5e skills instead of Pathfinder ones. I'm concerned it'll ask for a level of specialization from the party that'll be sorely missing if the other two wanna play say a Wizard and a Magus.
Wait, what? Casters are the best at problem solving, how could more casters result in more unsolvable problems?
With Wizard+Magus, the only thing that'd be missing is condition removal, and the party has two charisma-based character who could use UMD (or teleport at mid level - NPC casters are a thing!). Seriously, you can't have too many arcane casters in a group. I'd be more worried that such a group might breeze through the campaign.it sounds like skills, healing, and strong melee/tank are the three major niches that can be filled
Skills isn't really a niche - every character has some, and many can be replaced by spells. HP healing is already covered unless you have some problem with Infernal Healing.
I either need to recommend a Disable Device character or else one with enough brawn to break down doors.
Do you not use traits? There're five traits that make DD a class skill, and a trait to make it charisma based. Also, the Eidolon will probably get pretty brawny.
Seriously, let them play what they want, "party roles" be damned. The real essentials are covered, everything else can be substituted. If the party needs to use Knock or Stone Shape to pass a door, so be it! or maybe the Eidolon does lockpicking with the skilled evolution (if it has hands).
My biggest worry would be someone playing one of the weakest classes (Rogue, Ninja, Vigilante, Cavalier, Samurai, Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, cMonk, Brawler; besides certain archetypes) and feel overshadowed by the casters. Seeing other characters be able to do much more is a pretty disappointing thing!
If someone wants a sneaky backstabbing good with talking to people kind of guy, rogue is fine.
First, it's literally impossible to backstab in PF (no facing), and second, Rogue isn't really that good at sneaking or talking to people. The ability may be called "Sneak Attack", but in reality, it's usually "Teamwork Attack" - you basically need to play a Rogue the opposite of how one would imagine. Because of that, plus because it's the class with the worst basic defense package in the game, I'd always try to steer beginners away from Rogue. Seriously, Slayer's Studied Target, or Investigator's Studied Combat/Strike are closer to the "hit them where it hurts the most" thing most such people are looking for.