Class Feats that don't provide enough of a boost

[Nettah]

Hi everyone.

I like doing different theory builds in the playtest and running the numbers on some of the builds.
One of the feats I have done some math on is Dual-Handed Assault (level 4 fighter feat) for a single weapon wielding fighter, and I most say I have a hard time seeing how it would ever be worth it. I like the design of the feat, but the actual numbers don't seem to really back the use of it up.

I did the math assuming wielding a bastard sword (I have a hard time imagining any weapon benefitting more from it) and it still falls short of just attacking twice unless you need a 13 to hit (then it starts giving a very minor bonus).

If you spend all 3 actions attacking it does give you a small bonus (because the two-action attack is only 1 strike in terms of MAP), but unless you have the level 12 feat Dueling Dance you are then giving up extra AC or a third action for something else and the bonus of extra DPR still seems minor enough that it's not really worth the feat. (around 1,5 extra damage per round).
As you weapon becomes more magical the bonus starts growing with full-attacks (about +2,2 DPR with +1 potency and +3 DPR with +2 potency)

But overall it hardly seems worth it to pick a level 4 feat if you don't really benefit from it before level 12 or so. I know there is also a small benefit to more easily get through resistance or hardness or if you somehow have a bonus that only works for a single strike this turn (like true strike) but I don't think it's enough to actually get exited about picking this feat.

One change I would consider is changing the feat to a single action (still with the open trait) and simply letting you either increase the damage dice one step or letting you utilize your two-weapon trait if your weapon have one instead, then it would strictly give you a bonus for using the feat and 1-handed weapon with a free-hand combat style but having the limit of once per round and the opportunity cost of other open actions.

Do you think this would be a reasonable change to consider? Have I missed some clever use for this feat, making it better? Are there any feats you like, but that seems to fail to really "do enough" to be worth it?

This is not supposed to be a thread to criticize the state of any class, but rather to look at certain feats that might miss the mark a bit and maybe provide suggestions on how to make the feats more worthwhile or interesting. I know there a plenty more and I might do some math and suggested changes for some of the others later.

[Draco18s]

Ok, I just plugged in the numbers using T-Roll using the formulas I put together a while ago (modify the dice rolled as needed).

I left to-hit (12) and target AC (20) alone. Three swings: 20.3 DPR for 3 actions. Dual-Handed-Assault got 22.3 DPR.

2 DPR is actually pretty good, compared to some other comparisons I've done.

Bumping target AC to 22... 14.7 vs. 16.9

Bumping target AC to 26... 9.1 vs. 10.1 (still a full 1 DRP bonus in favor of DHA)

And you get to maintain your free hand benefits.

Yes, if you only spend two actions attacking you're going to be losing some DPR, but this feat lets you do the Regrip action before an attack without having to actually....regrip....which would break any free-hand stances.

[Nettah]

Yes as I said it started to get a better benefit from using the 3 actions to attack once you get Dueling Dance (but again that is a level 12 feat) but my concern was that the bonus from the feat doesn't really come into action before you are quite a bit higher level than you were when you took it (which I don't think feels good).

So it seems to pretty much requirer the user to be level 12 use Dueling Dance in the first round of combat and then start benefiting from the feat from the second round and forward (as long as you don't spend time moving, intimidating, interacting with items or spending actions using other "Open" actions) and frankly I don't feel that the feat is then really that exciting.

Btw I am not getting the exact numbers you are (but close and pretty much the same DPR difference) what weapon and potency level is your data from?

[Blave]

Nettah wrote:

Yes as I said it started to get a better benefit from using the 3 actions to attack once you get Dueling Dance (but again that is a level 12 feat) but my concern was that the bonus from the feat doesn't really come into action before you are quite a bit higher level than you were when you took it (which I don't think feels good).

The idea is probably to give you options and make you think about your turns. If you're surrouned by enemies, using two normal attacks (or rather one strike and any press) + Dueling Parry is probably a good idea. But if you're face to face with a dangerous enemy who is already injured, forgoing the AC bonus from Parry and instead do a DHA + Strike/Press turn might be a better idea.