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Since we had both a vanguard and a witchwarper, didn't think this belonged in either class forum; feel free to move if desired.
I ran a nice long one-shot session (my own adventure) over the weekend, a six-hour session with a good mix of combat and exploration/talking. My players picked their own characters, level 4 with bog-standard WBL, and we wound up with:
A Dwarf vanguard
A Half-Elf mystic (star shaman)
A Nuar soldier (blitz)
A human witchwarper
I didn't push for it, but I was happy with what we got here; the soldier contrasting with the vanguard and the mystic with the witchwarper. The Nuar was focusing on a doshko rather than Ring of Fangs or horn-gore natural attack builds, while the dwarf was being traditionalist with axe and shield (player wanted this since that awesome Dwarf vs. Vesk art in the CRB). The half-elf had pumped Dex with her first enhancement and was focusing on spells without saves, while the human seemed more focused on Cha and casting. Of course, everyone has played Starfinder before, so they knew to make dexterity second priority in all cases (14 on the solider was the lowest). Nobody felt terrible at their jobs, and everyone had fun.
Ship combat went well; Vanguard gunner, Soldier engineer, Mystic pilot, and Witchwarper captain. The witchwarper was relieved that there wasn't an envoy, who would have been a better captain...felt like that was pretty much the only role he could play with any efficacy. Then again, that makes him less screwed that any non-Star-Shaman mystic.
Upon defeating the enemy ship they followed with a boarding action; the witchwarper LOVED that his Infinite Worlds ability wasn't just land, but would work for sea, air, or vacuum by RAW. There's a lot of applications in free-fall, if free-fall is a common adventuring environment. The witchwarper did get excited at first that vacuum does damage, something he could change to a region of flames. Looks like that isn't doable as-is, though, given vacuum does bludgeoning damage, not energy.
The poor dwarf vanguard did get frustrated about his speed at times; his blitz buddy was often reaching the enemy a full round before he did; he joked that he should have taken the Momentum aspect “even with the useless skill”. Talking afterwards, the soldier suggested a dip into blitz or taking the Fleet feat; the vanguard actually said if he was building again he'd actually take an operative dip for the speed boost plus trick attack accuracy. With Attracting Shield and Interfere, he really did feel like he was an effective tank once he got there. His damage was lower that the solider's, of course, but he loved his accuracy (players like hitting).
We noticed that with Charming Veneer we have a return of the old Enhance Diplomacy. Does it work in starship combat? I dunno. But it's basically an always-cast for the party face. Our witchwarper appreciated the default +1 bonus on his talking, but found it fiddly to always cast. The witchwarper generally enjoyed his casting, although he avoided taking some spells on the list because they “felt too techno”. He did take Spell Focus immediately, of course, and he felt like Spell Penetration was there way earlier than it needed to be. As the loon had gotten up to a 20 in his casting stat he actually had enough spells to keep casting, and as his other feat was Extra Resolve he was able to Lessen Injury a lot. Even with that 9 RP at level 4 (!) he felt resolve-limited.
The solider and the mystic both did more raw damage in fights than the two new classes, but that's what they built for. For what it's worth, everyone wants to play with these four characters again; I might let them level up a bit first.
Plus side for the speed issues of the dwarves there are a lot of ways to mitigate that even without class dipping. In close quarters type fights it should not be that much of an issue but for more open stuff shield move penalty plus armor move penalty do hurt.
Plus side for the speed issues of the dwarves there are a lot of ways to mitigate that even without class dipping. In close quarters type fights it should not be that much of an issue but for more open stuff shield move penalty plus armor move penalty do hurt.
I had ruled that the dwarven steadiness let him ignore the shield penalty, too, perhaps generously. I actually really liked his idea of an Operative dip. That costs him a point of BAB and the discipline progression, but does net a very accurate boost to those entropic strike hits with a compatible trick attack type (the 1d4 damage mitigates the entropic strike reduction), and he gets a good solid speed boost plus all those awesome skills.
Operatives don't get their speed boost until 3rd level, and I believe it only works with light armor, like Fleet.
Of course, that would be +1d8 to Trick Attacks at that point, so actually not as serious drop in damage as it could be.
Starfinder Design Lead
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I had ruled that the dwarven steadiness let him ignore the shield penalty, too, perhaps generously.
Certainly we ought to be sure the final rules make it clear, one way or another.
My inclination is that you made the right call.
Feedback about vanguards getting into melee is one of the things I am paying the most attention to, and if it needs tweaking I won't be afraid to make a change of some kind.
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Having played in a game where my vanguard had light armor, no shield, and the fleet feat, and another vanguard was in heavy armor with a shield, there was a world of difference between the two.
I think if the class is meant to be the melee dude, it needs either a speed boost to get into melee, or at least the ability to ignore armor/shield speed penalties. Possibly both.
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The players wanted to play with their characters again, and I had a level-10 adventure in the kitty, so we did more. Again, characters are:
A Dwarf vanguard
A Half-Elf mystic (star shaman)
A Nuar soldier (blitz)
A human witchwarper
The adventure was a little shorter this time, a little shy of five hours. They were infiltrating a dragon's volcano lair, the dragon being a red traditionalist with Bond villain tastes. One of the areas of the lair had the dragon's mad science minions working on "improving" dragonkin; biohacker NPC time.
I built the leader biohacker like a level 9 PC, while the underlings were using a scraped-together class graft on CR5 experts. This of course meant that the biohacker sub-boss was the second best armored thing in the entire adventure, barely behind the CR13 adult dragon. The frustrating thing was that the biohacker sub-boss was initially planned on being someone to buff dragonkin "brute" enemies, but he missed his buddies several rounds in a row even against monster KACs. All that was my behind-the-screen annoyance, though, the players had fun.
The vanguard built directly up to level 10 all in-class. He boosted strength twice and, after a lot of debate, enhanced his CON (to 23) first behind his DEX (to 21). He found his mobility much less of an issue at level 10, with the reach entropic strike thingy plus the lunge feat giving him an enormous range to truly mess people up with. He wryly commented that his character must have deep neurosis about the levels before 7 (lunge and haste), however. He was a horror of a tank, dealing out 3d6+19 damage against EAC to any intruding on his range. Having multiple reactions also helped his Bodyguard feat usage; the after the first combat the mystic nailed herself to his tail permanently. With his heavy armor, maxed dex, shield, and otherwise vanguardiness even the multi-attacking dragon missed. He eschewed a haste circuit because the mystic was supplying it for the party, but haste was a massive deal for him to actually get up into range.
The witchwarper had gone all-in on spells still, bringing himself to 24 charisma (!), which along with Spell Focus meant even the bigger threats were still occasionally failing their saves. As with anyone trying to be a pure caster in Starfinder, he still found himself with a tough row to hoe. The 18-wisdom mystic felt herself to be about equally effective with her focus on summons and buffs. That said, the witchwarper had a lot of fun, even getting off a successful baleful polymorph on the dragon (briefly). Slow was the MvP, because slow is always the MvP. Infinite Worlds with a 20ft radius was excellent, preventing the dragon from escaping in the very end even. The volcano hazard was unfortunately not used as a lightning volcano, but the "step down heat" function let the life-bubbled party bypass an otherwise very damaging chamber. Given the number of dice being thrown at upper levels, Lessen Injury still felt like the go-to Paradigm Shift...it got used 8 times, compared to Flash Teleport (2) and Inhibit (6 tries, landed 3). It was particularly funny when they fought an operative enemy.
That said, the witchwarper had a lot of fun, even getting off a successful baleful polymorph on the dragon (briefly).
Why briefly? Making subsequent saves doesn't end the spell (or even the requirement to keep making saves until it fails a subsequent one). Did it die quickly or dispel the baleful polymorph?
Dispelled, alas.
As the loon had gotten up to a 20 in his casting stat he actually had enough spells to keep casting, and as his other feat was Extra Resolve he was able to Lessen Injury a lot. Even with that 9 RP at level 4 (!) he felt resolve-limited.
Just one minor thing: Unless I've missed an errata somewhere, Extra Resolve has a prereq of Char Level 5. Probably doesn't change much but being even more resolve-starved.
As the loon had gotten up to a 20 in his casting stat he actually had enough spells to keep casting, and as his other feat was Extra Resolve he was able to Lessen Injury a lot. Even with that 9 RP at level 4 (!) he felt resolve-limited.Just one minor thing: Unless I've missed an errata somewhere, Extra Resolve has a prereq of Char Level 5. Probably doesn't change much but being even more resolve-starved.
D'oh. Serves us right. Last characters they made were for Signal of Screams, so...
That is a very resolve-starved setup. In the level 10, he burned all the way down to the three he needed to stabilize in just three encounters.