What is the rationale behind item levels?

[MerlinCross]

Malk_Content wrote:

MerlinCross wrote:

Malk_Content wrote:

I'm not sure what your issue is here? It comes up every time in almost every topic. Yes in any game with maths involved people with find the mathematically optimal things within that system. That is literally impossible to avoid. Even in low maths high narrative systems like WoD people still work out the "strongest" character paths.

The problem isn't the math. I'm fine with the math.

But I've also said this again and again, I'm bothered by the community following the math to the point I'm surprised there's no outright Math God on Golarion.

I'm tried of people going on about options, about balance, about how great the different builds are. And then following the guides to the point of quoting them, obeying the tier list, and having the same Fighter show up to 10 different tables. From 15 different players.

So far it is you, constantly, going on about guides. No one else I can see. People like guides. If you don't want them why even care? So long as the system allows reasonable characters without guides (something PF2 looks to be better set to retain than PF1) why does it matter one bit to you that other people might use them?

Even then that is hardly a dent against PF2 as it happens anywhere. It just seems so asinine to complain about it.

Why does it matter that other people use them? Because I didn't. Suddenly my character is behind, useless, can't keep up and am dead weight. Because I didn't min max like the rest of the table.

But I suppose it's asinine to expect to play tabletop with people that build empty vessels to just win. And GMs that think it's their job to kill the PCs each time. So both side have to min max or get out. Thus follow the guides and Teir lists like its a Moba.

Whatever, I'm the minority that just had to get good or get out. Main thing I've learned from the forums is you're all min maxers till proven otherwise.

Enjoy breaking another system.

[Malk_Content]

MerlinCross wrote:

Malk_Content wrote:

MerlinCross wrote:

Malk_Content wrote:

I'm not sure what your issue is here? It comes up every time in almost every topic. Yes in any game with maths involved people with find the mathematically optimal things within that system. That is literally impossible to avoid. Even in low maths high narrative systems like WoD people still work out the "strongest" character paths.

The problem isn't the math. I'm fine with the math.

But I've also said this again and again, I'm bothered by the community following the math to the point I'm surprised there's no outright Math God on Golarion.

I'm tried of people going on about options, about balance, about how great the different builds are. And then following the guides to the point of quoting them, obeying the tier list, and having the same Fighter show up to 10 different tables. From 15 different players.

So far it is you, constantly, going on about guides. No one else I can see. People like guides. If you don't want them why even care? So long as the system allows reasonable characters without guides (something PF2 looks to be better set to retain than PF1) why does it matter one bit to you that other people might use them?

Even then that is hardly a dent against PF2 as it happens anywhere. It just seems so asinine to complain about it.

Why does it matter that other people use them? Because I didn't. Suddenly my character is behind, useless, can't keep up and am dead weight. Because I didn't min max like the rest of the table.

But I suppose it's asinine to expect to play tabletop with people that build empty vessels to just win. And GMs that think it's their job to kill the PCs each time. So both side have to min max or get out. Thus follow the guides and Teir lists like its a Moba.

Whatever, I'm the minority that just had to get good or get out. Main thing I've learned from the forums is you're all min maxers till proven otherwise.

Enjoy breaking another system.

At which point PF2 is set up to make non-optimizers more on par with optimizers. And putting item levels in so that a player can at a glance see what sort of things are appropriate helps that. Yes some people with find the 3 best items on the level 9 items sections. But you'll be more on par picking from that list without looking up those items than in PF1 where you have the entire pool of items vying for relevance at any given level.

And I won't be breaking another system, or any system. Because I don't use guides, don't care about optimization. All I care about is that it is easy for me and my players to run stories within the parameters of the system.

[Ediwir]

Let’s be duckling real for one second.

The level 9 items, excluding consumables and Uncommon ones which you can’t buy anyways, are Rhino Hide (specific armour), Adamantium Battleaxe (special material weapon), the +1d6 elemental runes, the Master Sturdy Heavy Steel Shield, the regular power Staves of Magic School, the Gloom Blade (magic weapon) and the Armbands of Athleticism. Their price oscillates between the single outlier of 640gp and the more common 700gp, plus the 145gp Armbands which are off the norm.
And that’s a lot of variety and variance for one level.

Now, you really frolickin’ think you’ve got that much choice for one given character that you have to give up your precious flavour in order to stay bloomin’ competitive?

This isn’t about breaking a system or making a guide. This is about reading the giggling list and picking which three things can apply to you.
Get a grip.

RealTalk was offered to you by Guinea Pigs United and FlowerPeace inc. Stay smiley!