I know there have been threads about this before, but all without conclusive answers and I don't want to be a necromancer and bring deadthreads back to live. So here goes:
Some classes have abilities that can be activated as swift actions (for this example I will be using a warpriest).
A warpriest can 'activate' his weapon as a swift action when reaching lvl 4. A warpriest can also use his fervor ability to cast a single spell on him as a swift action. A warpriest, upon reaching lvl 7, can activate his armor as a swift action (spending 1 fervor and you can activate your weapon as a free action).
If, for some unbeknown reason, you're in battle and used a immediately action in your previous round, you can no longer activate your armor or weapon as a swift action.
How is it not possible to use you Standard Action (StA) to activate your armor and weapon?
I know the rules say you only have 1 swift action per round, but isn't that more to imply, when you take your normal actions, you only have 1 swift action? I.e. one move action, 1 StA, 1 swift or 1 full round and 1 swift.
I totally agree that a move action is NOT submittable to perform swift class ability or swift spells (mental stress is different for a move and swift action), but a StA could easily be submitted for such a swift action, right?
Let's get the exmaple even more clear:
You get into combat and roll low initiative, but you have combat reflexes, and have Flexible Counterspell. The big bad tries to cast a save-or-die spell on your party, but you dispel that attack with your felxible counterspell (immediately action). Now, it's your turn, and you've spend your swift action, so you can't activate your armor and weapon (which is a regular swift action) but you CAN cast a spell, which is mentally more stressing AND more time consuming!.
Am I the only one who thinks is ridiculous?
The one swift action per round and not being able to downgrade actions is about balance. Swift actions are usually powerful, along with immediate actions.
Standard actions can be "downgraded" to a move action to take a double move on your turn, there is no reason why you can't downgrade a move action into a swift. My table hasn't had any problems with being able to downgrade actions, but we also don't have any power gamers.
Hard to defend, but that's the way it is in PF1. In PF2 there's just 3 actions and a reaction, in D&D 4e you could trade down your standard action to a move or minor (swift) action or trade down a move action to a minor, but those are different games.
I'd like to point out that you technically can exchange your standard action for a swift action, via the rules for readying an action.
The one swift action per round and not being able to downgrade actions is about balance. Swift actions are usually powerful, along with immediate actions.
Standard actions can be "downgraded" to a move action to take a double move on your turn, there is no reason why you can't downgrade a move action into a swift. My table hasn't had any problems with being able to downgrade actions, but we also don't have any power gamers.
True, swift actions are usually powerful, but are they as powerful as a standard action? IMO not, a standard action is THE action you want to have (i.e. fight and cast). And basically, a swift action CAN be powerful, not by definition IS powreful. I think any class or player would rather have an extra standard action each round than a swift action. For example, casting Righteous Might (standard action) as a warpriest is more effective than activating ones armor (swift action). And, like I already stated I fully agree that "downgrading" a move action into swift is OP and not doable due to the mental stress a swift action is compared to a move action (move: no mental stress). However, as a StA is (IMO) more powerful than a swift (and more 'stressful'), and a StA can de downgraded to a move, howcome a StA can not be used to perform the same actions that would otherwise be used in a swift action?
So, is it really like avr stated, "that's the way it is in PF1"?
I'd like to point out that you technically can exchange your standard action for a swift action, via the rules for readying an action.
Valid point, didn't think about that one.
However, like the walking bag of vinegar I am, I do like to mention that by readying an action, you're initiative changes, which is not something players are really too exited for.
You can set the trigger as "someone breathing" or "I blink" and then immediately breath (people tend to do that) or blink are setting the trigger, but I don't know how DMs repsond to those readyings.
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I'd like to point out that you technically can exchange your standard action for a swift action, via the rules for readying an action.Valid point, didn't think about that one.
However, like the walking bag of vinegar I am, I do like to mention that by readying an action, you're initiative changes, which is not something players are really too exited for.
You can set the trigger as "someone breathing" or "I blink" and then immediately breath (people tend to do that) or blink are setting the trigger, but I don't know how DMs repsond to those readyings.
This doesn't work as you can still only perform ONE swift action per round:
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
So, if you do spend your swift action on your turn as usual, you cannot "ready" a standard action to perform a second swift action.
I'd like to point out that you technically can exchange your standard action for a swift action, via the rules for readying an action.Valid point, didn't think about that one.
However, like the walking bag of vinegar I am, I do like to mention that by readying an action, you're initiative changes, which is not something players are really too exited for.
You can set the trigger as "someone breathing" or "I blink" and then immediately breath (people tend to do that) or blink are setting the trigger, but I don't know how DMs repsond to those readyings.
This doesn't work as you can still only perform ONE swift action per round:
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.So, if you do spend your swift action on your turn as usual, you cannot "ready" a standard action to perform a second swift action.
The argument here is more of immediate actions "wasting" the swift action slot for your turn. You are not using two swift actions.
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The argument here is more of immediate actions "wasting" the swift action slot for your turn. You are not using two swift actions.I'd like to point out that you technically can exchange your standard action for a swift action, via the rules for readying an action.Valid point, didn't think about that one.
However, like the walking bag of vinegar I am, I do like to mention that by readying an action, you're initiative changes, which is not something players are really too exited for.
You can set the trigger as "someone breathing" or "I blink" and then immediately breath (people tend to do that) or blink are setting the trigger, but I don't know how DMs repsond to those readyings.
This doesn't work as you can still only perform ONE swift action per round:
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.So, if you do spend your swift action on your turn as usual, you cannot "ready" a standard action to perform a second swift action.
Irrelevant. Immediate actions ARE also swift actions:
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn).
So, if you have performed an immediate action, you have effectively used your swift action for that round, hence you can't ready a standard action to perform a second swift action.
I learned something new then. Neat.
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True, swift actions are usually powerful, but are they as powerful as a standard action?
This is very much the case; I'm not aware of any balance issues that arise from allowing people to trade their standard for an extra swift action. Other trades result in all kinds of problems, but since standard actions are so overwhelmingly important there's really no way to abuse this specific trade.
It's not strictly allowed by the rules, but standard->swift action trade shouldn't cause problems if you want to allow it at your table.
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.So, if you do spend your swift action on your turn as usual, you cannot "ready" a standard action to perform a second swift action.
The quoted rule says "turn", not "round". A readied action usually won't go off during your own turn.
Having an immediate action causing you to loose your next swift is about game balance. Sometimes it does seem wonky.
While the warpriest has no choice but to use a swift action for certain things, other classes are given a choice.
The Bardic Performance has choices:
At 7th level, a bard can start a bardic performance as a move action instead of a standard action. At 13th level, a bard can start a bardic performance as a swift action.
So if you are high enough level, you have the option of a standard or move, or even swift.
Many class features that start as a standard and improve are does as an optional change not a required change.
/cevah
so the corset of delicate moves does nothing then if we can only perform 1 swift action per turn?
so the corset of delicate moves does nothing then if we can only perform 1 swift action per turn?
I think this is the case of "specific trumps general".