I can't really say I'm a full on power gamer, but I've noticed somewhat that my RPG upbringing has kinda steered me towards this mindset, and I'm nervous about how it might affect my gaming in the future.
My first RPG experiences were looking at different message conversations about people asking how to optimize different situations and heard about how people hated things like 3.5's samurai for being awful, and reading Tome of Battle and hearing about how there is an actual bloody tier list for RPG classes... So for a long time, I thought Optimize meant to not fall into "trap" choices and make yourself good so you're not a burden to your team.
The rest of my first experiences were making hypothetical builds that I'd probably never get to play either because I never finished them or because I was the only one with in-depth knowledge of the systems I was hoping to play in.
Though I've recovered somewhat from the complete "I need to either optimize or die" mindset, I still end up with a bit of issue that I end up pausing at a number of things thinking "This is not a good choice" like lamenting that Spheres of Power Half Casters (Mageknights and Armorists) "Can't" use things like Conjuration, Death, Mind, Telekinesis, or Destruction because their low caster levels mean they would be bad at those things. or thinking "this class/feat/build/whatever is not good" in general.
How do I break past this so I can just make whatever I might want rather than worrying about numbers?
My advice? I was in a similar place you were as far as optimizing goes. I "get" over that urge by finding a concept I what to play and telling the "typical optimization advice" to go **** itself. Of course, I do plan out exactly what the build is capable of and how close it can reach the lofty heights of power and majesty... and then I tone it down from there. You never NEED that kind of power in an actual game that sticks evenly remotely to the intended scope of the power curve. In the end, if you can't help but keep some of the "over-the-top" abilties, just remember, you might have them but you don't have to use them. Save them for when they might be needed to save the day.
True power comes from careful application of force and timing. That is where I get the most fulfillment in my role play sessions.
Some things I like to remind myself when I make characters for actual games, and not theory crafting:
9th Level spells are not everything
You don't need full BAB or Caster Level to be effective, only to be optimal
You don't need every new shiny ability at the exact level it becomes available.
Multiclassing is OK, even if slows down class progression, but keep it under control
Honestly, I've found the best thing to do is read. Read through every option until something strikes you as interesting, or a concept pops up. Tyen feel free to optimize from there.
Example, I read Vigilantes and found the Arachnid Wildsoul. Arguably it is a bad Archtype for the class, pushing the first Vigilante talent choice to 4th level, but I liked the thematic concept enough to want to see it through and work it. Same for the Samsaran Reincarnated Oracle. I like the idea, made a character. Would be easier/better as a flat ancestry mystery Oracle, but I really fell in love with the theme.
Other times, take inspiration from other media. When Farcry 5 came out, I laughed at the idea of one hit kill thrown shovels. I loved it so much I scoured the forums and books to find how to build it in the Makeshift Scrapper Rogue. My build for that character leads to a 28d6+18 or so shovel attack, which is WAY above anything that would ever be necessary. It's dumb fun though.
So my advice is just build with concept or fun in mind first. There's nothing wrong woth optimizing a bad base to make it playable in some of the APs.
So my advice is just build with concept or fun in mind first. There's nothing wrong woth optimizing a bad base to make it playable in some of the APs.
This. 100% this. This is the perfect use of your optimization skills. Reminds me of the Iron Chef threads at gitp. Got myself 3rd place in one of those. Good times.
Thank y'all for all of the advice, though my worries are a bit more on the Floor than the Ceiling. Like the examples I mentioned, thinking about "Oh this would be flavorful, but it's not good"..
Some things I like to remind myself when I make characters for actual games, and not theory crafting:
9th Level spells are not everything
You don't need full BAB or Caster Level to be effective, only to be optimal
You don't need every new shiny ability at the exact level it becomes available.
Multiclassing is OK, even if slows down class progression, but keep it under control
Thank you for this.
I think you might be asking the wrong question.
It shouldn't be 'how can I play what I want and not worry about numbers' but 'how can I play what I want and still be a contributing member to the party.'
Their are a lot of answers to that, and sometimes it depends on 'what you want' but in general I would say the getting the highest numbers isn't really all that great of system mastery, getting the best numbers for a concept is much more sophisticated. A level beyond that is getting the 'right' numbers for the party so that everyone has a good time, which is the true goal.
Given what you posted though, I'd council you to start with checking your assumptions. "Half caster's use things like Conjuration, Death, Mind, Telekinesis, or Destruction because their low caster levels mean they would be bad at those things" isn't a true statement in my opinion. Yes, in raw power of the ability in isolation, a half caster isn't going to have the oomph of a full caster, but there are plenty of ways that these more martial focused casters can use these spheres to give a boost to what they are already good at, or give them an option when normally things wouldn't work. If your concept is someone that fires powerful blasts of energy, a full caster is going to be superior obviously, but if the concept is fights with a sword powered with elemental energy, your half caster is probably superior (and not ineffective).
Secondly, I'd look strongly at how you are defining your concepts. A concept can usually be made with a number of different classes. A barbaric warrior can of course be a barbarian, but could also be a rogue, a fighter, a ranger, a cleric, a bard or even a sorcerer just to look at main book classes (I think wizard would indeed be a stretch for that concept). They would work in different ways, and certainly have a different play style and some are a lot easier to make at a relatively high level of optimization than others. Just because you want to play a thief doesn't mean you need to choose the rogue class. Look at what 'thief' means to you and figure out what aspects of that concept are most important and find the class that best fits it. A conman is probably easier to make as a bard than a rogue. A mugger is often more effective as a full bab class. A wizard might be superior if you are planning of breaking and entry of magically fortified vaults.
1: In terms of how I play with concept making, I try to think of my role in the group. (frontline fighter, wizard, support, lighter fighter usually)
2: I guess since I never played the game yet and was just cooped up with hypotheticals, I don't know what the difference between +1 and +2, +5 and +10, +10 and +20 might mean. Whether that means the difference between my save based stuff actually hitting or not. and I have nothing to go by other than guides. and with death and conjuration in particular, CL increases how many undead you control and how many hit dice your conjuration companion has, with low casters having only 7.
3: I said it as 'recovering from powergamer mindsets' over 'how to pick what I want but still contributing' because i am the one getting hung up, it's not like my party is saying I'm holding them back. The issue is in my own head thinking 'oh that ability is bad or really niche, but cool, I want to pick it but have difficulty doing so', or worry preemptively that it will hold the team back when I try my 5th ghost strike that does nothing.
I played a wizard once. I'd never played a wizard before but I joined a table last minute and they already had a gunslinger and a slayer (I normally play rogues). Only thing the table lacked was an arcane character.
I played a Divination wizard who gave up Conjuration and Transmutation. Arguably two of the better spell schools for one of the worst. They looked at me like I was crazy.
By level 3, I was the most fun, and most support character in the party. I had all these niche buff spells that applied to each member of the party. Ricochet Shot for the Gunslinger, Brow Gasher for our Slayer and Brawler, Draconic Resonance to recycle extra damage from our Alchemist. I also dabbled in Necromancy with a couple of undead including a Necrocraft(?) and Istoqs for scouting. I also grabbed a Goblin Skull Bomb to use with True Strike.
What I'm getting at, even if an ability or option might do nothing or is niche, just do it and have fun. If it doesn't work, it happens, just live with it and eventually retrain in downtime (or if you're a wizard just buy more spells :P). Most of the time you'll get a smile around the table when you pull something a little off-meta from generic attacks every turn.
When I first played I wanted to be a dragon, and so I became a bloodrager, a crossblooded dravonic (white, I like winter) abyssal bloodrager, but when I looked through classes I wanted to be a gnome, I started with Str of 16 dex of 12 con of 14 int of 16 wis of 10 and Cha of 14
My gm wanted an explanation, on the gnome barbarian (he wasn't a fan to be honest :D)
So it was that this gno e became the result of a nectomancers experiment (I began taking Eldritch heritage, with the orc, and Boreal bloodline)
It didn't start super optimized, but as he progressed, I optimised a lot, and I can honestly say he was fun from level 1-20,
Gnomes usually have an obsession, his became trying new food,like giant centipede, and spiders in the first dungeon, I still remember,
I scored a critical (he was using claws) and blurted out "I take a bite out of it"
The gm gave me a look, had me take a fortitude save (i passed) and the rest was history, I took bites out of trolls, golems (or the left over dirt) and all sorts of things
Sorry, I ramble, the point is, feel free to optimize, just make sure you also optimize your role-play, give your charectors charectors, even if it's a flaw, play it out :)
But hey, my gnome ripped up enemies faster then the best of them, and there was no problem with that :D it added to the role play, pleasant/intelligent gnome, loses control, grows into a raging monster, and hordes fall before him!
Optimizing and roleplay are not mutually exclusive :)