Untrained Skills and Aid Another

[Sparky, the Ysoki Engineer]

-- The short of it --

I think I know the answer too this. But want to just check.

The Aid Another, section suggests that you can assist on PC on a skill check by performing the same action.

The action in question could be any of the Trained Only actions, however some I can understand it's the GM fiat on if the Aid Another is really applicable in the case in question. If the GM does decide that it's possible.

However can a PC attempt the Aid Another on a Skill check if they're not trained.

Ultimate for my home games I play it as GM fiat. But as a society GM could do with knowing the RAW of it?

-- The long of it --

It makes sense to me in some regards, for example major engineering works, your PC might not know how the car engine fits together, but if anothe PC tells you to here hold this right here, and when they say now you're to drop it. Then well you can do that with some degree of sucess and it's aid them, even if you're not really skilled in engineering.

In other regards maybe not so much, hacking into a computer for example, probably not able to angle the whole Aid Another unskilled, but again thats GM fiat on what can and cannot be assisted on.

Oh I appreciate that some checks are right out. I'm not a big fan of Aid Another for an kind of knowledge check, trained or no. You as an individual know something or can work it out, or you don't/can't. No matter how many untrained PCs in the room shouting ideas is going to make you any where near more right. I was more thinking of the practical hands-on skills.

There are also some actions for that trained only, such as recall knowledge that cover making an untrained check. If for example you are not trained in Culture, if it's a DC 10 or below you can attempt the check, but rolling a maximum of a 10 as a result.

It may just be conincidence that the check has the same DC threshold, but it would like the matter cleared up from the Society GM point of view.

All in all, there is no wrong answer for GMs who don't play Society games. But I would like it written out clearly, as a yes or no for Society games. For the moment, I have to go with a no, even if my personal judgement for some cases would be yes.

[Gary Bush]

No. You have to have a rank in a trained only skill in order to aid other action.

Look on page 132 of the CRB.

[Metaphysician]

Gary Bush wrote:

No. You have to have a rank in a trained only skill in order to aid other action.

Look on page 132 of the CRB.

I would make one exception to this: if the usage you are attempting to aid is a usage which the GM would allow as being possible untrained ( even if at a penalty ). So, if you don't have the Computers skill, you can't Aid Another in cracking the encrypted user log-in. . . but you *could*, maybe, Aid Another in getting Space-Excel to save your spreadsheet to a new space-floppy.

( Mind, you'd better have a high INT rating or some kind of other advantage, or this is really just fishing for a lucky high roll. . . )

[Dracomicron]

Kinda leads to hilarious stuff like Mercenaries getting 1 point in everything because their 12th level Theme power is automatically Aiding Another without a roll.

[breithauptclan]

Dracomicron wrote:

Kinda leads to hilarious stuff like Mercenaries getting 1 point in everything because their 12th level Theme power is automatically Aiding Another without a roll.

Actually, I think that is the point of the Mercenary ability. Not a bug that causes unintended hilarity.

Aid Another becomes nearly guaranteed for any skills that you are fully optimized in after about level 5 or 6. It becomes nearly guaranteed for skills that you have full ranks in at around level 8.

At level 12 when you get the Squad Leader ability that makes you auto-succeed at Aid Another checks it must be intended for skill checks that you are not at full ranks in. Because at full ranks, just your ranks alone would cause you to auto-succeed at the skill check DC 10 even if you have an 8 in the relevant ability score.

[Dracomicron]

breithauptclan wrote:

Dracomicron wrote:

Kinda leads to hilarious stuff like Mercenaries getting 1 point in everything because their 12th level Theme power is automatically Aiding Another without a roll.

Actually, I think that is the point of the Mercenary ability. Not a bug that causes unintended hilarity.

Aid Another becomes nearly guaranteed for any skills that you are fully optimized in after about level 5 or 6. It becomes nearly guaranteed for skills that you have full ranks in at around level 8.

At level 12 when you get the Squad Leader ability that makes you auto-succeed at Aid Another checks it must be intended for skill checks that you are not at full ranks in. Because at full ranks, just your ranks alone would cause you to auto-succeed at the skill check DC 10 even if you have an 8 in the relevant ability score.

Er, yes. The hilarious thing is that "Mercenary" is not synonymous with a person with a broad education. These hardened mercs are encouraged to become dilettantes with knowledge a mile wide and an inch deep. Brutal soldiers of fortune who know enough about Life Science to talk about renkrodas at a fancy endangered species benefit dinner party.

I find the fluff funny, not the mechanics of it.

[BigNorseWolf]

Dracomicron wrote:

Er, yes. The hilarious thing is that "Mercenary" is not synonymous with a person with a broad education.

Its a very broad education. Just not a formal one. You work around the universe doing a lot of different jobs you pick up a lot of things. Very little of soldiering is the actual shooting part. There's the getting to the battlefield part, which may let you pick up piloting. There's the someones just been shot, congratulations you're the closest thing we have to a medic, get going with the duct tape part, and then theres the the plane needs the duct tape more than that guy or we're all gonna die part. you may not have studied werewolves and vampires but you've been in battle with people who have and you remember them screaming at you "ahhh my leg..." and also screaming "get the silver".