I was reading some stuff in the books and here in the forums about Ancestries, then something came to my mind... why was the "base" speed in the game changed from 30ft. to 25ft.? Actually, there are three questions I have:
1) Could someone explain to me what is the reason behind that change? I mean, they wouldn't change a long-lasting tradition for no reason, but I'm not getting it.
2) What are the underlying consequences that this causes in combat? I've GMed a considerable amount of games using these rules but nothing stroke me as "this specific thing feels different because of the smaller speed".
3) Could I easily homebrew this away without some really bad, unintended consequence? Basically increasing everyone's speed by 5ft. Some of my players really dislike it the way it is now.
I know Paizo said the decision was based off of something out of the change to the 3 action economy. Possibly because being able to move twice and attack or to move three times in a round instead of move once and attack or move twice changes what you can do on the field in an overall distance sense.
Mechanically I can't say how much effect it has, my group hasn't had problems with it but mobility feels more a factor in our fights than it almost ever did in PF1.
dmerceless wrote: Could I easily homebrew this away without some really bad, unintended consequence? Basically increasing everyone's speed by 5ft. PF1: (If not charging) you could move 30 feet and attack, or move 60 feet.
PF2: You can move 50 feet and attack, or move 75 feet.
Proposed house rule: You can move 60 feet and attack, or move 90 feet.
No particularly bad consequences as long as you remember to add 1 square to movement for everyone (I assume NPCs are also supposed to benefit). It probably makes things a little easier for melee attackers and a little harder for ranged attackers, since maps are only so big.
dmerceless wrote: the smaller speed Smaller, but faster...
Well lower speeds certainly make armor more punitive than before. It also makes difficult terrain way more punitive.
Really, just have speed 30 base. Moving twice counts as jogging - something you can readily do for the duration of most battles but most can't keep up forever. Moving three times counts as running and should probably make you flat footed, and you definitely can't keep it up forever.
Fuzzypaws wrote: Really, just have speed 30 base. Moving twice counts as jogging - something you can readily do for the duration of most battles but most can't keep up forever. Moving three times counts as running and should probably make you flat footed, and you definitely can't keep it up forever. Yeah, or just keep it basically as it is in the Unchained RAE (easy to convert to the Playtest):
"Run (Move; 3 Acts): You move four times your speed in a straight line. When you do, you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.
You can run for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score; each round after that, you must succeed at a Constitution check to continue running (DC = 10 + 1 per previous check). If you fail, you stop running and are staggered for a number of minutes equal to 10 – your Constitution bonus (minimum 1)."
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I don’t think anyone outside the Paizo design team can answer #1 for you. My wild speculative guess would be they didn’t want movement to get “out of hand” due to 3 actions instead of two. But playing Unchained would have told them it wouldn’t, so who knows?
I don’t think there are great consequences to the change, at least when comparing 30 ft to 25 ft with 3 actions. The armor thing does hurt. Also note that “us in a box” (common in published adventures) is the great equalizer and movement nullifier. Does your speed really matter when you and three friends are in a 20x20 closet with a Huge monster?
As for house ruling it away, I say go for it. I’ve been playing 3 actions with 30 feet movement exclusively since Unchained came out (and will continue to do so). My gaming table did not burst into flames and my games did not become broken. To be honest, the speed seemed very different when we initially started using 3 actions, but after a handful of sessions, it seemed about the same as PF1e RAW.
I’m not surprised that your players don’t like it. The 5 feet isn’t a big deal until you take it away from someone. Giving it back won’t be a big deal and your players will stop feeling like something got taken from them.
I've actually been a fan of the change, for one the biggest reason I avoided small characters was because moving when compared to larger characters (Given the Hyper Optimized "Munchkin" nature of players I usually had to tolerate) would mean I'd never get to do anything in combat, they'd have ended it before I got the chance to do anything, which sucked.
One of the problems I have with it is the weird interaction between character movement, mounted horse movement, and the movement of other mounts.
By base, your generic human protagonist can move 25'/50'/75' in a round (elves can pull 30'60'90', a few others are a little slower, etc). On a horse you can get 100' (that same horse can run 140' by itself), but most mounts only really get 80'.
This honestly makes mounts really slow by comparison (though I guess there's an argument that most animals are only really faster than humans over long distances, rather than immediately). And I kind of wonder if the reason they reduced character speed to 25' is so they wouldn't have to increase mountable animals to 50' per action to make them faster than a running character.
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