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A) I'd prefer quality over quantity. With ancestry feats now able to provide expert proficiency and critical specialization with all your ancestral weapons, I feel spending a class feat for expert level proficiency and critical specialization with just your deity's favored weapon is grossly overpriced.
B) Not even really a balance issue, to be honest. Channel Smite is a 2-action ability that counts towards MAP, which is super awkward for clerics to use. Its primary benefit is being able to cast true strike prior to the attack for a high chance of a high-damage crit, and if anything that's a bit better for Gorum and his greatsword favored weapon than Erastil and his longbow.
C) This has been talked about quite a bit; spellcaster proficiency bumps are all clustered towards the end of your career, and it's kind of a kick in the pants to lose a class feat for an obligatory +1 that you need to stay relevant.
A) Clerics don't get a ton of feats to support anything, but yes the weapon ones feel especially left out.
B) Dasrak has that right, I don't think it's even balance related. It seems to be just the rules straight up not being big on ranged Clerics.
C) Yes, it really would. Making a level 9 character and you still don't have Expert Spellcaster while Fighters are up to Master Weapons is just plain weird and contributes to the feeling that spells are so ineffective offensively. It comes online far too late.
But really, Clerics don't feel that good at all, to me. They work well only because Channel itself is so overwhelmingly awesome. If you just removed that, what's left would be fighting with Alchemist for the worst class in the game (and Alchemist looks like it's getting fixed in 1.6).
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Oh yeah, and less channel charges.
To be fair, they had so many it was staggering. Six or seven "just cast heal at max heightening you can" for free.
It was so oversized as to be considered an entire class by some folks here on the forums. Now they only get three or four, which is still a ton, but at least other classes (like the paladin) can keep up. Channel Life gives the paladin +1 SP and lets them spend SP to cast Heal (instead of Lay on Hands)...three to four times per day (they also have the option to pick up a domain power they can also spend SP on).
Honestly, if Channel Energy was shoved into the "spell point pool" and domain powers increased that pool by 1 (or 3 for the advanced powers) I think we'd be on pretty good footing.
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New 1.6 cleric changes seem underwhelming.
Able to freely cast with both arms burdened, better non-channel healing spells...I think that's largely it. Oh yeah, and less channel charges.
Better non-chanbnel healing spells? Where is that in the update?
And yeah, they didn't really do much. I think they see things as fine because the surveys came in positive, but that was reliant largely on Channel. The class without that is weak and uninspired.
My biggest concern now is they think it's fine because it worked before, when it only worked because of Channel being so powerful. I doubt they'll be getting a lot more Cleric related survey data at this point so that perception may not change. If the release version comes out basically the same, I'll be finding a new class to play, sadly.
Better non-chanbnel healing spells? Where is that in the update?New 1.6 cleric changes seem underwhelming.
Able to freely cast with both arms burdened, better non-channel healing spells...I think that's largely it. Oh yeah, and less channel charges.
Most/all damaging spells got a +1 free heightening (i.e. treat the original damage as if the spell had been heightened +1). At least, that's what it looks like based on when I looked at it.
Look at page 3 of update 1.6
I doubt they'll be getting a lot more Cleric related survey data at this point so that perception may not change.
I haven't done my class survey yet. Trust me, the reduction in channel will be noted as "a good change, but clerics have no other features that are worthwhile."
Most/all damaging spells got a +1 free heightening (i.e. treat the original damage as if the spell had been heightened +1). At least, that's what it looks like based on when I looked at it.
Look at page 3 of update 1.6
I'm looking, and I don't see that. I do see a lot of spells had their base damage increased in a pattern that looks similar to that. Heal and Harm are not included in the list, nor do I see anything that says it applies to anything not in the list.
It's been a long night and I could be missing it.
I haven't done my class survey yet. Trust me, the reduction in channel will be noted as "a good change, but clerics have no other features that are worthwhile."
Be sure to mention that they appear to have accidentally broken the 3 action Heal at the same time. They seem to want Clerics using something in both hands, but the three action cast requires a material component and you need a hand free for the religious symbol for that.
Emblazon Symbol was an annoying feat tax, but it worked. Now if you want to AoE heal you just flat out have to have a free hand, so the Somatic change doesn't even matter. When at the same time they just handed Quick Preparation to every Wizard, it certainly feels like the short end of the stick on the Cleric side.
I'm looking, and I don't see that. I do see a lot of spells had their base damage increased in a pattern that looks similar to that.
That's what I said. Their base damage increased by "roughly an amount equal to +1 heighten."
Heal and Harm are not included in the list, nor do I see anything that says it applies to anything not in the list.
I said most. Also, I don't consider Heal/Harm to be primarily damage-dealing. They can, but their primary use is healing (Heal: heal living, Harm: heal undead; as well as the fact that Heal/Harm should be mirror images of each other).
I haven't done my class survey yet. Trust me, the reduction in channel will be noted as "a good change, but clerics have no other features that are worthwhile."Be sure to mention that they appear to have accidentally broken the 3 action Heal at the same time. They seem to want Clerics using something in both hands, but the three action cast requires a material component and you need a hand free for the religious symbol for that.
Noted.
I didn't see that myself, but it's certainly a problem.
Unless...
If you’re a cleric Casting a Spell from the divine tradition while
holding a divine focus (such as a religious symbol or text), you can
replace any material component the spell requires by using the
divine focus as a spell focus instead. In this case, you don’t have to
have a free hand to take this action.
Yeah, doesn't quite mesh 100% with the changes. You used to be able to do M->S(divine focus) and while that's still true...Emblazon Symbol doesn't exist (and was, to be frank, dumb) so sword-and-board items don't qualify as "divine focus" and usable as "wave the stick around."
But you said earlier there was better non channel healing spells. That's what I'm confused by. Heal didnt change either.
There are better non-Cleric healing options. Clerics just got a straight nerf.
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I think the channel nerf makes a special kind of Clerics more attractive, which is viable, but very, very strange: Wis 12 Cha 18 Clerics.
If you do not want to lose your spell point pool, take two class feats into sorcerer multiclassing to make your spell point pool charisma-based.
This is possible because the caster stat does not really much for casting, if you do not cast offensivly.