Flat Checks and Persistent Damage

[Charlie Brooks]

Running a homebrew using the playtest rules, I decided to lean on persistent damage a bit. The decision wound up frustrating a couple players due to the fact that recovering from persistent damage requires a flat check rather than a save or skill check.

The folks who complained wanted the flat checks to instead be skill checks, so somebody very good at Acrobatics could clear off the acid faster, or somebody good at Medicine had a better chance to stopping bleed damage.

It seems like it would have been easy to give persistent damage a DC based on the level of the source and allow relevant skill checks/saves to try to beat that DC. Out of curiosity, is there an advantage to making persistent damage removal a flat check rather than something skill-based?

Also, have I missed a section of the rules where you can use skills, etc. instead of relying on flat rolls to fix persistent damage?

[kpulv]

I think it is a little odd, but after running the playtest for more than ten sessions, I like the flat check concept applied to persistent damage.

I think the main advantage is that you always know (both the players and the gm) what the check is. It's always DC 20, or DC 15 if you spend an action.

One thing that I missed early on (and I might be still misinterpreting this) was that any attempt to extinguish the persistent damage source (like fire, or acid) will prompt another flat check.

page 323 wrote:

You or an ally can spend actions to help you recover

from persistent damage, such as casting healing spells or
using Medicine to Administer First Aid against bleeding,
dousing a flame, or washing off acid; successfully doing
so reduces the DC of that condition’s flat check to 15
and usually lets you immediately attempt an extra flat
check to end that persistent damage.

So if you're on fire, or covered in acid, and you spend an action, you reduce the DC to 15, then immediately get a flat check to see if you end the damage. I've been treating this as every time you get magically healed as well. So if you have the time, you can spend all 3 of your actions trying the flat check, and on top of that, an ally can help and give you even more flat checks. You should be able to hit a DC 15 flat check in an average of 4 or 5 rolls, right?

Administer first aid also lets you use the medicine skill vs DC 15 to stop bleed damage, so the better you are at medicine, the better your chances are there.

I can see there being room for maybe something in the full game along the lines of feats or abilities that reduce the DCs of flat checks for certain types of damage. Some class feat like "Add your Reflex Save bonus to any flat check to end persistent damage" or whatever, but for now I think the system is fine as is and I appreciate the simplicity of it. I don't think it warrants a specific DC and save type for each source of damage.

[sieylianna]

Ran into this issue during the playtest adventure. The rogue took 2d4 of persistent damage. Failed 4 flat checks at 20 because we were fighting the fire elemental which had caused the fire damage with the initial attack. Combat ended so I spent four more rounds spending an action and not rolling a 15 or better and continued to suffer persistent damage. She might still be burning now, but the DM wanted to move on and there is no other means in the rules to get rid of it or for another PC to help out.

Totally ridiculous as written.

[Dante Doom]

sieylianna wrote:

Ran into this issue during the playtest adventure. The rogue took 2d4 of persistent damage. Failed 4 flat checks at 20 because we were fighting the fire elemental which had caused the fire damage with the initial attack. Combat ended so I spent four more rounds spending an action and not rolling a 15 or better and continued to suffer persistent damage. She might still be burning now, but the DM wanted to move on and [b]there is no other means in the rules to get rid of it or for another PC to help out.[\b]

Totally ridiculous as written.

Emphasis mine, since this is not true...

Every action that you make to end you get a new check. So if all you do is stop the fire you get 4 checks in your turn.

If anyone helps you, you get a new check per attempt!

So if everyone helps you in a round you will get maybe 13-16 rolls.

If you can't get an 15 or above, you should burn one more round! Lol

[Mudfoot]

But it's a bit silly that it's a flat DC20 or 15 that goes on forever. A bit of burning alcohol setting your shirt on fire is going to me much easier to extinguish than being soaked in napalm, and it'll go out on its own in a few moments. And some people are simply going to be better at putting it out, even if it's simply a level-based check.

[Zman0]

Persistent Damage is one thing I'm not a huge fan of. On some level, I like the concept, but I'm not sold on the flat 20 check. IMO, I'd like to see the flat check be reduced by 1 for every turn you've had it, IE not possible it goes on for ever.