| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been wanting to give my group an encounter that turns their usually black/white view of alignment on its head, and the idea of a Neutral Cleric of Charon came to mind.
Charon is the Horseman of Death, the embodiment of death by old age. He ferries people across the River Styx along with his Thanadaemons, even working with mortals as long as the price asked is paid. He is content to wait, knowing those destined to be his will come to him one way or the other given enough time. Death by old age is perfectly natural, and ferrying people to where they need to be is a practical and useful job. Even Daemon hating Hanspur makes an exception for Thanadaemons.
So would a True Neutral Cleric who goes about assisting those about to die of old age, ferrying the elderly across rivers, and providing last rites to the dying who are unable to obtain proper services fit him thematically? Or does that seem too close to Good behavior for a Daemon Cleric?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tricky.
His write-up is surprisingly tame for a Horseman, and doesn't help a whole lot here. And he accepts TN clerics. So he's subtle enough.
Still, he is the architect of the continued alliance of the Four big bads. Plus the Styx is not the greek Styx, and this one is not a great place to be. You don't end up there - or cross it - by accident. You've earned it, deserved it or you've been poached from the river of souls.
I'd take that into account, but it's still compatible with a neutral character. Mors ultima ratio and all that.
Of course, he'll still detect as evil, so hopefully that's not enough for your players.
Charon is also just not Pharasma, and the difference should be notable. There's really not much info on Charon's ways, that I can find at least, but I'd try and have it show, somehow.
Less "death is a part of life and shouldn't be feared", more "you can't escape it anyway, everything ends".
Not easy.
My two issues are :
- I can't really tell what Charon and his followers actually do.
Death, old age, all that. Evil because ?
Keeping the Four working together is bad, sure, probably time-consuming, but that can't be all he does. He's not the Horseman of Team-building.
It kinda feels like he has no impact on the Material plane, keeping his business to the outer planes. Which could be, I guess. Messing with souls post-mortem is evil enough. Unusual though. Or I am missing something, a book, a chapter.
- TN priest of Charon I could absolutely see. No problem.
But the attitude you describe is almost neutral good, and for me would need to be balanced. Something uncanny, sinister, or simply grim, cold, detached.
Care for the dying, but give them no warmth.
No comfort offered to the survivors, just the calm affirmation that the time had come, and as it does for everyone, eventually.
Treating everyone the same too, rich and poor, young and old, innocents and criminals. Plus that one might help confuse your players.
Something among those lines, for example.
There's room to build something not evil yet different from a pharasmin priest.
Again, tricky but interesting.
There’s also the fact that the Horsemen are willing to work with other planes for their own ends. Szuriel struck up a deal with Moloch and the armies of Hell to send daemonic aid in return for the souls of the dead on the battlefield. And Charon already makes deals with mortals that ends up in his favor. What’s stopping Charon from striking up deals with gods?
Also, Charon is the patient type. He is willing to wait eons for his plans to work. He’d be more than willing to send a few of his clergy into specified locations, both physically and morally, so his plans can work. A non-evil member would be an excellent proselytizer.
|
I think a N cleric of Charon could only really work in a society where E is the norm (SW Avistan, for example). Rather than, say an Asmodean Hospital Administrator running pyramid schemes to heal the elderly, the Boatmen offer to ferry the dying's souls past the legions of Hell, and into an embrace that will keep them from suffering for all eternity. Their suffering will simply *END*. They would need to focus on keeping these souls from suffering an evil fate, but still being frank and genuine about their duties (to keep the lying from piling up to evil acts).
In places where the state religions offer only eternal servitude (Cheliax), endless flaggellation (Nidal), being the toy for some vile entity (around Worldwound), or whatever lies that the Razmiran priests promise, the Boatmen offer a quaint, simple solution to keep your soul from the corruption of the Lower Planes: Charon will take you into himself, joining your essence with his. Instead of eternal suffering, you will quite literally become a small (insignificant) part of a god.
They will whisper these offers to those on their deathbeds, those who accept will quietly join their master (immediately via assisted suicide, no natural causes when the Ferry Man is always hungry). Those who deny, as we're RP'ing a Neutral cleric, can continue in their suffering, knowing they are a simple soul pledge away from eternal sleep.
^From what I've read about Abaddon, suffering doesn't end when you get there, until you are actually consumed (usually by a Daemon), which is not instantaneous . . . .
I think Nyerkh has the right idea. A TN cleric of Charon would represent to cold inevitability of death, the end it represents for nearly all mortals. While Pharasma's clerics seek to ease people into death, seek to make the passage into the afterlife less traumatic, a TN cleric of Charon would simply allow it to happen without any special treatment. They simply ferry the souls, nothing more, and nothing less.
Remember, the souls that Charon has any contact with are not bound for someplace nice, In Golarian 'reality', Charon is NOT the sorter. He is not about crossing over so much as about going to hell. He is that cold inevitability for his charges. He is pretty much irrelevant to non-evil souls. Do you feel this will somehow be different for his clerics? The interesting bit is how and why that CN person has chosen a religion that binds them to a path to hell that they would not really be fit for. Has said cleric been seduced into this darker path? There is the potential for good classic tragedy here. There is also the potential for GMing paths that are solely fo the purpose of messing with the players' core assumptions, which is risky.
That is the question indeed, the one you'll need to answer and the one that will make this character : "why not Zoi Pharasma ?"
To me, the choice of Charon implies bitterness, despair or anger, but I'm sure there are other ways to approach it too.
You could always go with "maaadness !" but feels a bit cheap here, this is not a Cthulhu cultist.
It's also worth remembering that Charon, unlike Pharasma, is open to negociation.
Which could be a way to build this as well : turns out, people useful to the cult do a lot less of that whole "dying" thing than other people. They also all seem to be somewhat indebted to that unassuming priest. Curious.
Death usually is a pretty good bargaining chip.
He could also be using his position to target specific people, marking them for easy poaching from the river of souls (which is not the Styx) somehow, damning them to Abaddon and refusing them the judgement of Pharasma.
His reasons for doing so might even be understandable and relatable.
It's not too hard to imagine someone horribly wronged turning to a Horseman. Staying neutral is the tricky part, but depending on who the targets are and how it's handled, probably doable - at least at first. Not gonna last of course : there's always a price for that kind of deal.
That is the question indeed, the one you'll need to answer and the one that will make this character : "why not
ZoiPharasma ?"To me, the choice of Charon implies bitterness, despair or anger, but I'm sure there are other ways to approach it too.
{. . .}
What I don't get is how the choice of Pharasma wouldn't imply bitterness, despair(*), or anger.
(*)Including its less obvious relative, fatalism.
UnArcaneElection, you are making a mistake equating Charon with Pharasma. There is a demonstrable, often pleasant, afterlife. Death is definitely not the desolate end, no matter how much many want to paint it so. Pharasma protects those souls passed on from poachers so why would her worship imply bitterness.
The best Charon can offer, other than the protection racket "I will leave you alone if you propitiate me and my thugs" sort of way is to allow those that can pay to avoid some of the bad stuff. Again, this is overwhelmingly only for those deemed to be suited/deserving of his unpleasant brand of afterlife. With him bitterness can be implied.
The Graveyard being her domain is bad art and poor storytelling in my never humble opinion. I would rather expect to see Pharasmins of being the tourist types, walking tours of Ellyseum, tram tours over the Abbyss, and that sort of thing until eventual boredom and recycling into a new birth, via Pharasma's other aspect. The most suited for this sort of thing becoming psychopomp travel guides as it were.
^Most people who pass into the afterlife don't actually get any benefit from it, even if they pass into one of the Good planes. When you lose your memory, as most of them do, you aren't yourself any more.
Pharasma has a portfolio beyond death though.
So I'd assume there are options other than bitterness and anger. Else I'd really rather not have to deal with Golarion's midwives, because that does not sound like a good idea.
That said, she does deal with death, funerals and the like : people aren't going to be happy carebears 24/7, that much is quite obvious, cap'n.
Charon on the other hand is apparently only about death. And being old. And is very evil for some reason.
Have to work to figure out why, since what it is that he and his cultists actually do is not really explained clearly anywhere that I can see (because the BoD is not helping). And that's where that got me.
Feel free to speculate and share your ideas.
Pharasma might have some dickish priests, Charon likely has very few who aren't.
Me not talking of fatalism was also no accident. It's too versatile a concept for where I was going. There can be a serenity in fatalism. It's kind of a big thing with religions, even.
Pharasmin fatalism ? Sure, very much so. Not quite expected, but pretty close.
But for Charon ? Not really. I'd much easier see either despair or joyful eagerness as the world rushes towards its inevitable end.
...
I'm amused by the idea of a sect worshipping Trelly the weight-watcher. Note taken. Might have to use that at some point.
Probably more N(E) than N, IMO.
As many have stated, Pharasma is the deity for the whole birth-life-death(-afterlife-rebirth) cycle. Charon is (supposedly) the personification of old age/death/entropy.
Rather than a cycle ("Why must we keep coming back over and over to struggle again and again?"), Charon would advocate for an "earned" rest for a "successful" life ("Enjoy the fruits of your labors in the here and now for as long as possible. You don't need to wait for the rewards until after you die. I can help extend your time on this earth, too, for the right price... Afterward, you can look back at all you've accomplished with pride."). Charon plays the long game; giving mortals a couple decades (or even centuries) of life/unlife* is a small price for getting a hook in them and/or leading them to ever more extreme prices until gaining control of their soul.
*- IIRC Charon has nothing against providing the secrets of becoming a lich
Um, your earned rest being Abaddon? Really? This is going to be a hard sell to any but the most ignorant.
I also rather expect that less people consider life to be all joyless struggle than you are portraying, but I am sorry if you personally feel that way.
Have you considered that there may be an actual purpose for the cycle of life, such as protection, improvement and growth.
Charon is the Ferryman. Maybe this cleric works on a ferry, and Charon has useful subdomain spells. It's a rather narrow focus of worship, but many gods have multiple aspects.
Um, your earned rest being Abaddon? Really? This is going to be a hard sell to any but the most ignorant.
No, the "earned rest" is enjoying the current life(/unlife) for as long as it's "affordable" and can be extended. Who cares about the next one if you can keep delaying it?
Of course, Charon knows that (almost*) all mortals will eventually die. So, the difference between getting that soul in 1-2 years or 100-200 (or even 1000-2000) is not something he worries about.
*- exceptions are extremely rare; ascended divinity rare (although that's not a guarantee, either)
There’s also the fact that the Horsemen are willing to work with other planes for their own ends. Szuriel struck up a deal with Moloch and the armies of Hell to send daemonic aid in return for the souls of the dead on the battlefield. And Charon already makes deals with mortals that ends up in his favor. What’s stopping Charon from striking up deals with gods?
Also, Charon is the patient type. He is willing to wait eons for his plans to work. He’d be more than willing to send a few of his clergy into specified locations, both physically and morally, so his plans can work. A non-evil member would be an excellent proselytizer.
AFAIK, Charon has the same goal as the rest of the Horsemen, which is the extinguishing of all life. This is kind of a flaw in the way people often interpret the horsemen, they aren't aspects or personifications of "death" so much as they are of the concept of the concept of "end". Charon himself is more or less just patient when compared to his brethren, since he knows that time will end all things eventually.
Expanding off that, Charon doesn't seem to have that many followers. He's known to make deals with mortals and help create lich's, but mostly because he knows that these beings will cause massive amounts of destruction, and end up back at the river styx. I don't see how you could make anything work, as Charon himself would simply kill and eat your soul should you go near him, unless he was trying to make you into a lich. In that case he'd be sending you to the mortal plane specifically to commit mass murder, and then get killed yourself, at which point you'd end up back in the river styx and he'll eat your soul. He's pretty blatantly just evil.