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OK, that title will make lots of people think happy thoughts... >;-D
Seriously, I notice alot of persistent sentiment that there is way too many Circumstance bonuses.
Whether Racial abilities, or physical abilities effecting some shield-like deflection.
I agree, and it feels like there is too much and you have to think the idea all of these wouldn't stack is strange.
On the other the impetus for this is obviously the tighter math, and allowing multitudes of bonuses to accrue is not desirable.
My idea is splitting the difference (literally).
Realistically there isn't unlimited number of Circumstance bonuses that could apply on any one check.
I think a realistic approach is saying when you have multiple Circumstance bonuses, they only stack 50%.
If there was situation with 3 Circumstance bonuses, it seems like it would be allowed to add the 1/2's together,
although I guess the normal 'drop 1/2's' rule applies if you still have a 1/2 after adding them all.
Thoughts? Not just on that proposal, but the over-all situation with Circumstance bonus.
I am fine with there being only two categories but they need more descriptive names.
I think renaming conditional bonus as supernatural bonus would help make it more clear which type of bonus is which.
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I prefer a simpler approach. Ditch circumstance and conditional. You can have up to 2 bonuses from sources other than items and no more. Nobody has to look up which bonuses are which. If you have more than two take the highest two.
Wow that is... profoundly simple. I like it!
Allow a few things to interact with and improve Item Bonuses, and just make all other Bonuses Untyped. Each PC can choose any 2 Bonuses they qualify for and apply it to the roll. This is honestly genius so long as we fit a caveat that a PC cannot benefit from 2 identical effects, 2x Bless, 2x Bull Strength
I like the any two bonus idea as well.
If they keep it as is, then one of the two names needs to change, Having two long C words as the only names makes it much harder to remember.
I like that "take any 2" (outside standard types) too, I think it's pretty much taking on the same issue, namely infinite stacking by huge number of bonus types can be bad, but moderate stacking from limited sources is fine. It's simpler, so I would go with it, although the exact mathematic/balance outcome is different for all these options.
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I'm finding 307 instances of places where Circumstance shows up in the PTCRB. Some of these are in the index, or in context to some lore but it also shakes out to:
-188 instances for Circumstance bonus
-54 instances for Circumstance penalty
I'm finding 173 instances of places where Conditional shows up. Again some hits are from other places in the book but:
-120 instances for Conditional bonus
-44 instances for Conditional penalty
(It's interesting that there are almost twice as many Circumstance bonuses than there are Conditional ones but.. meh)
So lets say conservatively, we eliminate ALL instances of both of these, chalk it up to about 450 words saved over the course of the book.
We can describe the 2 bonus/penalty limit early on and efficiently, it can probably be made to fit in 2-3 paragraphs, 150 words or less.
That's 300 words leftover, with Art that's literally a WHOLE PAGE of new space for content + BONUS + We don't have to go hunt down the rules every time you get a new bonus to figure out is your Rage, Bless, Bull Str, Runic Potency, Deadly Aim, etc etc etc coming from a Conditional or Circumstance Source.
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I prefer a simpler approach. Ditch circumstance and conditional. You can have up to 2 bonuses from sources other than items and no more. Nobody has to look up which bonuses are which. If you have more than two take the highest two.
I also really like this suggestion- it allows a party to have two characters casting buffs without one of them feeling redundant, whilst also giving the option of the party being less reliant on magic if that's how they want to play.
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The Earthdawn RPG had "take only the three best bonuses", and that was a mess, as many bonuses were highly conditional. So ever time you rolled you had to go through a long list of potential bonuses and see exactly what three were highest for just this roll.
(It did not help that in Earthdawn some bonuses added a plus, and some changed the dice sizes)
Pathfinder doesn't change die size, and even in the rare instances where it would (such as changing a weapon die) that doesn't count as a bonus or penalty.
Highest three bonuses and highest three penalties would be a way simpler and more intuitive way of handling things than trying to keep track of a bunch of modifiers that all have the same name or almost the same name and figuring out which stack or don't stack.