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Jet Dash says "Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump" whereas the Athletics skill for jump says "you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement."
Is Jet Dash still capped by that limitation in the Athletics skill? Or is that limitation checked prior to the doubling of the distance by Jet Dash?
How could it not have an impact on the DC, if only in a round about way?
Normally, if you want to make a lateral, running jump of 50 feet, you would need to beat DC 50. With Jet Dash, however, if you want to jump 50 feet, you only need to beat DC 25 to cover 25 feet, which is then doubled to 50 feet.
If it worked as you stated, the rules modification outlined in the Jet Dash feat would be all but worthless to pretty much everybody.
I’m inclined to agree that it bypasses the original limit, as it’s no longer you doing the additional jumping, but the thrusters.
I’d also agree the original DC stands, with the jets doubling the distance achieved.
Specific trumps general. Athletics is a general rule for how you would make a jump. It's kind of the base line for how jumping works.
The Jet Dash gives you specifics for how you modify those base line rules.
It specifically says. "Whenever you jump."
Substitute the word jump from the Core Rulebook.
Whenever you "as part of a move action, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement." double the height and distance you can "as part of a move action, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement.". That may be a bit confusing to read, however the specifics in Jet Dash would extend the amount you can jump, overwriting the general rules around jumping.
As a matter of course, whenever an item says something, I tend to regard those as specific rules related to that item. Same for feats as they are meant to alter the base rules in some manner or another.
I’m inclined to agree that it bypasses the original limit, as it’s no longer you doing the additional jumping, but the thrusters.
I’d also agree the original DC stands, with the jets doubling the distance achieved.
Thrusters? Jets?
Jet dash is a feat. There's no tech mentioned in the discussion here.
I’m inclined to agree that it bypasses the original limit, as it’s no longer you doing the additional jumping, but the thrusters.
I’d also agree the original DC stands, with the jets doubling the distance achieved.
Thrusters? Jets?
Jet dash is a feat. There's no tech mentioned in the discussion here.
Apologies, one of my players took the armour upgrade (jump jets) and the feat at the same time. Clearly confused me.
I’m still inclined to believe that you can go the extra distance as the feat does expand movement in other areas
I tend to agree with Ravingdork on this one ...and it does get a little tricky due to the word "can" .... since it says.. 'Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump' and makes no reference to "maximum distance" you can jump ...i would say the most likely interpretation is that you double the distance you would get from your athletics result, up to your movement maximum .......(side note).. we always played it that if you took a double move you could jump up to that distance, ..(not really supported or denied by rules as far as i can tell,depends on how you interpret "remaining movement")
I allow extra jump cap on double moves or run actions too.
I had the same question some time back, and never came to a RAW conclusion. I personally would rule that it does double the limitation, if only because it makes jumps trivially easy to hit the speed cap DC. Linkified
Especially because every 10' you can increase your speed cap gives you +4 to jump, which is effectively doubled with the feat to +8; you have to really pump your speed before you began to outstrip that effect.
Jet dash doesn't remove the amount of remaining movement limitation.
Its not a matter of specific vs general. Jet dash only alters the distance you move. Nothing else. It doesn't change rules that it says it doesn't change.
If you take a 10-foot running start just prior to the jump attempt, the DC is equal to the number of feet you are attempting to jump horizontally (or half with jet dash) , or four times the number of feet you are attempting to jump vertically (or two with jet dash).
The rule is there to prevent someone from hanging in mid air between their turns and to keep someone from increasing their movement speed by playing captain kangaroo and jumping everywhere instead of walking. Both of those would be broken if jet dash changed those rules.
Alright, so for example, I have a jet dash speedster with a +69 modifier to jump checks, and 120 foot base land speed.
Assuming no external penalties, she can never get less than a 70, allowing her to jump a minimum of 140 feet with a running start. However, due to the cap, she can never jump more than 110 feet.
There do not appear to be any rules for double moves in Starfinder. You simply spend two independent move actions to move your speed twice.
There also doesn't appear to be any limitations to how many jumps you can make during your movement. So if the branches of a tall tree were close enough and could support the character's weight, she'd be able to leap frog up to her full 120 foot movement speed.
Alright, so for example, I have a jet dash speedster with a +69 modifier to jump checks, and 120 foot base land speed.
Assuming no external penalties, she can never get less than a 70, allowing her to jump a minimum of 140 feet with a running start. However, due to the cap, she can never jump more than 110 feet.
No.
A 120 foot base land speed will let you jump up to (120X2)-10= 230 feet if thats all you do in a round. Your amount of available movement isn't decreased just because the action is technically split into a standard/move action: you're just stuck on what your second action has to be.
What you can't do is move 220 feet and then jump for another 140 to go faster.
There also doesn't appear to be any limitations to how many jumps you can make during your movement. So if the branches of a tall tree were close enough and could support the character's weight, she'd be able to leap frog up to her full 120 foot movement speed.
With a 17 foot minimum vertical leap that doesn't seem unreasonable.
Thanks BNW! I thought you were saying the contrary, but it seems we agree on the way it works.
Do you mean jump jets? Or leapers? The answer for each would be totally different.
My example already assumes leapers are being used to get such a high modifier.
It's debatable whether or not jump jets give you extra range at all.
Armory. They add a +10 bonus to jump checks if you choose to activate them while jumping, but only have a limited number of charges.
It's debatable whether or not jump jets give you extra range at all.
Yup. Still waiting on that answer... :/ For the purposes of another feat, Sky Jockey, which could potentially complicate the Jet Dash question further.
No bonus to the check is going to overcome a limitation that doesn't care what your check is.
Alright, so for example, I have a jet dash speedster with a +69 modifier to jump checks, and 120 foot base land speed.
Assuming no external penalties, she can never get less than a 70, allowing her to jump a minimum of 140 feet with a running start. However, due to the cap, she can never jump more than 110 feet.
No.
A 120 foot base land speed will let you jump up to (120X2)-10= 230 feet if thats all you do in a round. Your amount of available movement isn't decreased just because the action is technically split into a standard/move action: you're just stuck on what your second action has to be.
What you can't do is move 220 feet and then jump for another 140 to go faster.
There also doesn't appear to be any limitations to how many jumps you can make during your movement. So if the branches of a tall tree were close enough and could support the character's weight, she'd be able to leap frog up to her full 120 foot movement speed.With a 17 foot minimum vertical leap that doesn't seem unreasonable.
Unfortunately BNW, I (like RD) have been unable to find any rules on being able to double move. I have no problem with not being able to move twice your speed + a jump (though I do not really have a problem with it, either). What I was saying about the way I would rule it ends up being similar to your assumption of a double-move rule.
The actual rules for jumping say that as part of a move action (singular), you can jump a distance up to the remaining amount of your movement (with no indication that it means taking two move actions and adding the movement).
RD's speedster could, RAW, take a 10' running jump of 110' twice in one round, but could not jump over 110' ever; unless Jet Dash removes the limitation of only being able to go up to your remaining movement for that move action.
If you are taking two actions to move your move speed and your remaining movement are no longer the same thing.
There is no stipulation or implication that the part has to be half, or some other fraction that would prevent it from being done twice.
On the bigger picture, dissecting grammar rarely goes well for just about anything in english and it definitely breaks paizos writing: which are meant to be easy to read, common sense solutions not a legal manual. So for jumping, much like the rules for a computer, you ask "is this something that someone in an action movie could do without the audience face palming?" and go with that.
I don't disagree with your preference, or criteria for your decision. I just have trouble with the logic you use to get there... Jumping is clear that it is done as part of a single move action. There is no ambiguity in that part of the text, and there is no rules text to support the idea that you can count a second action to move as a cumulative amount of "remaining movement" for the purposes of a jump. If there was, there would not be any confusion about this aspect of the feat in the first place. It's a fine house rule, and one I agree with - I certainly do not mean to imply that I want something opposite that.
Logically, saying that you can jump as part of a move action but no more than your remaining movement requires that limitation on distance be considered only from the availability of the single move action the jump is a part of. Unfortunately, for SFS or groups looking to follow RAW, this feat is unclear.
Fortunately Run does not come into it at all by RAW, since it is a full-round action and not a move action; you cannot jump while Running. Otherwise that might make things even more unclear.
1) the decision to grammatically dissect the rules like that is usually a bad one. It is absurdly gamist to treat walking 30 feet and then walking 30 feet differently in any way shape or form as walking 60 feet. Walking 25 feet and then jumping commits you to finish the jump just like walking 35 feet prevents you from attacking.
As has been repeatedly stated by the people that wrote them, The rules are NOT written to hold up to that kind of scrutiny so not reading them that way is a perfectly thing to do
SFS is run by the rules, NOT the rules as rules lawyers dissect them. Common sense, reason, evidence, considering intent and comparing levels, and I need to say it again, common sense, are allowed and necessary parts of reading the rules.
I really wish people would stop giving society play the reputation of having to be followed like the worlds worst programmed computer. yes, there are a few stickler DMs out there that have really odd readings of the rules, but they're not that much more prevalent than home game dms
2) IF you decide to dissect the rules that way anyway, you can get any answer you want to by deciding when to apply "it doesn't say you can so you can't" or "it doesn't say you can't so you can". (This is one of the big. (This is why I find the idea of following absolute raw being necessary for consistency laughable: you can twist whatever meaning you want out of the words that are there)
Jumping is clear that it is done as part of a single move action
1) it is not. Just because something can be done as part of a move action doesn't mean it can't be done as part of 2 move actions. If something takes a day of travel it doesn't mean i have to leave at midnight and arrive by midnight, i can go noon to noon, or I can go 12 hours one day and 12 hours the next.
2) At the height of absurdity you've just said that you can only jump once, ever, in your characters entire career.
3) If you don't like the persnicket meter being cranked high enough to differentiate between a move action and remaining movement, well nothing says they're the same thing. You don't HAVE to believe they are, but you don't have to believe they aren't either.
BNW, I may have come across more adversarial than I intended, and I apologize if that is the case. I am not trying to rules-lawyer the text or dissect the grammar; my emphasis was on how the game breaks down actions. A move action is a specific type of action, and differs from a full round action, just as an attack action is different from a full-round action and from a move action. I do not believe that within the context of the game framework a move action can be extended into another; that is my own personal opinion of how the game mechanics function, given the rules book as reference.
I am also not trying to say that I am right and you are wrong, or generate contention here; my purpose was to try to show to anyone looking at this thread why the issue is unclear, and that they may expect to see some variation of response because of that. Saying that it makes sense to use a second action as the remainder of your movement to jump doesn't actually make the feat any clearer, even if it is common sense.
Fortunately Run does not come into it at all by RAW, since it is a full-round action and not a move action; you cannot jump while Running. Otherwise that might make things even more unclear.
So hurdling doesn't exist in Starfinder?
Adventurers are just forced to charge through everything in their path?
Yeah, I don't believe that for a moment.
RD, consider the rules actions; Running (action) is a specific full round action that makes you flat-footed, cannot be done over difficult terrain, and lets you travel at four times your base speed. I would certainly consider hurdling difficult terrain. Running (descriptive text) as a move action with jumping is different thing entirely. You can do that twice in one round, for twice your base speed, and still have a swift action available.
It's not quite the same as the real world, where the 100 meter dash world record speed is just under ten seconds, and the world record 110 meter hurdle is just under 13 seconds; but even for these world-class athletes there is a ~25% decrease in speed to be able to hurdle over things. For adventurers in armor, with packs and gear? Yes, I would say they cannot Run (action) and jump at the same time.
It's not clear to me if a consensus on how Jet Dash works was ever reached and it doesn't appear any official clarification was ever made. I found one other thread on this matter, but it's older and rather than start a new thread, I'm bringing my thoughts here to the more current thread.
To me, there seems to be a misconception on how Athletics works in regards to jumping. One doesn't make the Athletics check to determine how far one jumps; one determines how far one wants to jump and the Athletics check determines success or failure.
As part of a move action, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement. If you take a 10-foot running start just prior to the jump attempt, the DC is equal to the number of feet you are attempting to jump horizontally, or four times the number of feet you are attempting to jump vertically.
If you do not take a running start, the DC of the check doubles. The DC is modified by the same environmental circumstances that apply to Acrobatics checks to balance (see page 135). If you fail the check, you fall. If you fail by 5 or more, you fall prone even if you don’t take any damage from the fall. Creatures with a land speed of 35 feet or more gain a +4 bonus to Athletics checks to jump. This bonus increases by 4 for every 10 by which a creature's land speed exceeds 40 feet. You can’t take 20 on Athletics checks to jump.
If a character with a base move of 30 feet takes a 10 foot running start and then wants to jump 20 feet, the DC for the Athletics check is 20. If that same character wanted to jump 30 feet with no running start instead, the DC would be 60. I don't believe any of us would argue that. And failing to hit either of those numbers with the check doesn't result in a shorter jump; it's a failure and the character falls. Nowhere in the rules for using Athletics to jump does it state or imply that the die roll of the check indicates how many feet are jumped. And maybe that distinction is debatable?
Jet Dash
You are swift of foot and can make enormous leaps.
Benefit: When running, you move six times your land speed. Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump. While running, you don’t gain the flat-footed condition.
Nowhere in the rules for the Jet Dash feat does it state or imply that the DC for Athletics checks to jump is halved or changed in any way. The feat does not make it easier to jump; the feat enables one to "make enormous leaps" by doubling the distance one can jump.
Let's go back to my previous example of the character with a base move of 30 feet. They take a 10 foot running start and can then jump 20 feet. Jet Dash doubles the distance they can jump to 40 feet, but doesn't change any of the DCs in any way. If the character wants to jump 20 feet, the DC is 20; if the character wants to jump the full 40 feet allowed by the feat, the DC is 40. But the character must decide how far they intend to jump before making the check, the distance determines the DC, and the roll determines success or failure (with a failure resulting in a fall, not a shorter jump).
That's my interpretation of the Jet Dash feat. In my home games, that's how I'd run it. In organized play, I'd expect table variation until there is an official clarification. But until then, I'd make a case for my interpretation with the GM before any SFS scenario I was playing to find out how the GM wants to run it before I use it.
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Yeah I think trying to parse this CRB writing to arrive at The Platonic Ideal Truth of what it Obviously means, is doomed to failure. The text is ambiguous. So you'll get people reading it one way and insisting it's not ambiguous, because obviously they're right. And you'll get people reading it the other way, and insisting it's not ambiguous and obviously they're right. They'll also all insist that the rules are clear so anyone who doesn't agree with them must be due to... magic? Mental deficiency? A demon as cunning as it is powerful?
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Let me try to demonstrate the ambiguity.
The Run feat in
Pathfinder clearly has something to do with jumping.
Benefit: When running, you move five times your normal speed (if wearing medium, light, or no armor and carrying no more than a medium load) or four times your speed (if wearing heavy armor or carrying a heavy load). If you make a jump after a running start (see the Acrobatics skill description), you gain a +4 bonus on your Acrobatics check. While running, you retain your Dexterity bonus to your Armor Class.In Pathfinder, you can obviously jump while running. In Acrobatics, it says:
Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
Now, in Starfinder, the Athletics skill starts out with:
As part of a move action, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement.
I think however, that that was a mistake. We get a glimpse at the possible intent when we look at Jet Dash:
Benefit: When running, you move six times your land speed. Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump. While running, you don’t gain the flat-footed condition.
Sentence 1: about running. Sentence 2: about jumping. Sentence 3: about running again. The sentences are a single paragraph and we should assume they're all talking about the same topic. Whoever wrote this feat thought that you could jump in the middle of a Run full round action.
Note also the similarity to the Run feat in Pathfinder: (1) When you run you run faster. (2) You jump faster [when you run?] (3) When you run, you're not flat-footed. Whoever wrote this feat was transposing it into Starfinder from Pathfinder.
So can you jump while running? I think the intent here is yes. I think the phrasing in the Athletics skill is a good and should be more like:
As part of an action in which you move, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement.
That would allow you to also jump during withdraw and run actions, and shot on the run, parting shot, agile spell, spring attack, and trick attack movement. Otherwise, you would not be able to jump during any of these actions, which to me seems like an absurd rule. Even if that is what it literally seems to say, I don't think it's what is intended.
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Second question. What does it actually mean that "Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump."?
A) It refers to "you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement." It's the only use of "can" in the entire jumping rule so a very literal reading latches on to that.
B) It means that the amount of distance you can cover with a skill check result is doubled. You "can make the jump" that otherwise would be beyond your skill level. Example: you have a +0 to jump; the farthest you can jump is 20ft. With Jet Dash, you'd be able to jump up to 40ft.
It's not definite one way or the other: the feat text is truly ambiguous. But I'm inclined towards option B, because of how similar the feat text is to the Run feat. The Run feat doesn't increase your speed, but you are effectively moving faster, so you get a jumping bonus similar to what you'd get for higher speed. You have more maximum jumping distance remaining too, because you're moving 4-5x your speed.
Since Jet Dash is Run ported to Starfinder, the middle sentence would be about increasing the practically covered distance, but not with a +4 but by plain doubling it. Which seems appropriate because you're running really really fast.
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That brings me to my final point: I suspect the intent of Jet Dash is that you can only jump farther with it while taking the Run action. Again, notice how the comment about jumping farther is sandwiched between two rules about the Run action.
he Run feat in
Pathfinder clearly has something to do with jumping.
No. A running start is not the run action. A running start is clearly defined as 10 feet.
In Pathfinder, you can obviously jump while running. In Acrobatics, it says:
Pathfinder > Acrobatics wrote:Action: None. An Acrobatics check is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation
This does not logically follow. That jumping is a part of of other actions does not mean that jumping can be a part of any actions, for example casting a full round spell.
That doesn't mean that you CAN"T jump while running, just that the rules don't say that you can. The rule don't have a grammatically platonic reading but many of them do have a common sense incredibly straightforward meaning and this is one of them.
I think however, that that was a mistake.
Okay, now you're getting silly. You can't say that a rule that is straight forward, non contradictory, sensible, and has a known purpose has to be a mistake because otherwise it would kill the ambiguity you say is there.
Jet dash is a combination of run and many of the leaping abilities that let you jump without a running start. Just like toughness is the combination of toughness and endurance.
hat brings me to my final point: I suspect the intent of Jet Dash is that you can only jump farther with it while taking the Run action
This is just wrong. You're seeing the word run and running and assuming they have to be connected. They don't.
If you take a 10-foot running start just prior to the jump attemp
No one uses the run action for 10 feet except snails.
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To me, there seems to be a misconception on how Athletics works in regards to jumping. One doesn't make the Athletics check to determine how far one jumps; one determines how far one wants to jump and the Athletics check determines success or failure.
I can't see any reason to embrace this interpretation and many reasons not to.
Lets say Jack the Numble is jumping over a 30 foot ravine with a river in the bottom. If jack jumps and just fails, where does he land? On the close side of the river, in the water, or on the far side of the river?
Every failure resulting in falling right off the ledge would just be silly.
You could also cheese it and jump from 5 feet back along the ridge. I failed the jump whoops i didn't go anywhere I only go 5 feet forward to the edge of the cliff.
"Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump."?
So what you're saying is that because your rules argument above makes this sentence nonsensical the problem is with this sentence and not your rules argument.
Come on guys, its two sentences, put the grammar diessction chainsaws down. It doubles the distance you would otherwise jump with an athletics check. There are more than enough actual rules problems to poke at without making them.
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nah, it's obviously a feat trap. With Jet Dash, you'll over leap your target area every time. Want to jump 10 feet to the next platform? You need a DC 10...oops! You jumped 20 feet! Into the pit you go!
"Whenever you jump, double the height and distance you can jump."So what you're saying is that because your rules argument above makes this sentence nonsensical the problem is with this sentence and not your rules argument.
I don’t believe my argument made that sentence nonsensical; I think my argument supports that sentence.
And I’m honestly trying to understand the opposing views.
So let me ask you this...
There are two characters. They both have a base move of 30 feet. Their Athletics modifiers are the same. They’re basically identical except one has the Jet Dash feat and the other doesn’t. They both move 30 feet with a single move action. Then they both take a running start of 10 feet. How far can each one then jump?
There are two characters. They both have a base move of 30 feet. Their Athletics modifiers are the same. They’re basically identical except one has the Jet Dash feat and the other doesn’t. They both move 30 feet with a single move action. Then they both take a running start of 10 feet. How far can each one then jump?
Long Jump
Rainbow Jet dash Can jump 2X his athletics check result (1d20+10) X2 max 20
Joe Average can jump (1d20+10) feet max 20
High jump
Joe average can jump (1d20+10)/4 max 20
Rainbow Jet Dash can jump (1d20+10)/4 X 2 or (1d20+10)/2 max 20
edit: max set to 20
The can jump language is just so you're not forced to overshoot the canyon and wind up directly in the Carnivorous Ficus' maw. Or so you can hop directly onto the post without overshooting it.
The can jump language is just so you're not forced to overshoot the canyon and wind up directly in the Carnivorous Ficus' maw. Or so you can hop directly onto the post without overshooting it.
That actually makes sense. So you’re saying the Athletics check determines the maximum jump distance, Jet Dash allows one to double that distance (if they so choose, but they can never exceed their remaining movement), and no one is ever forced to jump further than they want?
That actually makes sense. So you’re saying the Athletics check determines the maximum jump distance, Jet Dash allows one to double that distance (if they so choose, but they can never exceed their remaining movement), and no one is ever forced to jump further than they want?The can jump language is just so you're not forced to overshoot the canyon and wind up directly in the Carnivorous Ficus' maw. Or so you can hop directly onto the post without overshooting it.
eyup
Two more quick questions, relating to the “double move” debate...
The Jet Dash character with a base move of 30 feet takes a 10 foot running start and jumps. The result of its Athletics check, after doubling for the feat, is 50. Can the character jump the full 50 feet and end its turn, having used all its movement (in effect, a double move)? Can the character choose to use the result to jump just 20 foot, enabling it to take a standard action (or another move action)?
Two more quick questions, relating to the “double move” debate...
The Jet Dash character with a base move of 30 feet takes a 10 foot running start and jumps. The result of its Athletics check, after doubling for the feat, is 50. Can the character jump the full 50 feet and end its turn, having used all its movement (in effect, a double move)?
Eyup.
Can the character choose to use the result to jump just 20 foot, enabling it to take a standard action (or another move action)?
That seems like the sort of thing you'd need to declare before you tried it but would otherwise work. (No "i try to jump the entire 50 foot river , whoops i didn't make it? I'll land on that rock 20 feet back instead")
Got it.
... the Athletics check determines the maximum jump distance, Jet Dash allows one to double that distance (if they so choose, but they can never exceed their remaining movement), and no one is ever forced to jump further than they want...
So further clarifying what I wrote above...
The player states how far the character is attempting to jump and makes an Athletics check. The Athletics check determines the maximum jump distance and Jet Dash allows one to double that distance, but it can never exceed any remaining movement. Meeting or exceeding the DC of the attempted jump results in successfully landing in the intended space. Failing to meet the DC results in a fall at the distance indicated by the result of the failed Athletics check.
Does that sound correct and close any exploitable loopholes?
Sounds right
Combining the run action with a jump is a little iffy I think. For me it would make sense to allow it once.
RAW Jump is part of a move action. RAI You can do some rule breaking things by allowing it (such as ignoring difficult terrain by emulating a kangaroo)
Assuming run action +Jump is allowed.
I have speed 30, and jet dash. I am currently getting my butt whooped in a fight. 170' away is a 20' wide ravine. I "run action" away, and attempt to leap the ravine. Just for expedience, let's say I roll a nat 20. What happens to me?
30 foot speed + jet dash= 180 feet of movement.
(you wouldn't need a nat 20 to jump the ravine just a 10 since jet dash doubles your jumping distance)
As part of a move action, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement.
Which to me means you couldn't even try the check. Or rather the most the jump could take you is 10 feet and then you'd drop like a rock because you're out of movement). 3.x had Michael Jordan Air time where you'd be in air and then have to continue next round. pathfinder and starfinder stopped doing that.
in all likelyhood you'd just stop while still on the ground. With a more literal minded DM you'd probably want to stop 10 feet back from the cliff so you can have a 10 foot running start next round. With a more cinemetic/emersive one you could go right to the edge now and and your 170 of running this round can count as your running start for next round. (edit never mind you have jet dash you evade this issue)
if i jump and "hang in the air", that's not actually what is happening. what happens is i jump, and midway through my jump, someone shoots at me (ie, their initiative comes up while i'm mid jump, because i ran out of movement).
The rules require that you stop your movement before that happens exactly so you DON"T wind up with air jordan hang time in between rounds. Yes it's a diversion from realism but someone hanging up in the air in between rounds causes a bunch of headaches (as any 3.o dm can tell you).
in what scenario can you justify running 180' as a full round action not counting as a running start for the next round? what in the rules do you think actually prevents this conclusion?
1) its irrelevant here as having jet dash would make it a moot point
2) Its not the call I would make , being a little bit more of a simulationist than literalist
3) As part of a move action, you can use Athletics to horizontally or vertically jump a distance no greater than your remaining amount of movement. If you take a 10-foot running start just prior to the jump attempt
a) which can (but doesn't have to) be read as putting the 10 foot move as part of the same action as the jump
b) "just before" might be read as precluding whatever it was you did last round
Example:
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An area of effect affect has electrified the ground. At the end of the round, everyone in the area takes damage.
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A player takes a standard action to do whatever, and is in the area. They then move about a bit, and, when they only have 5' of movement left, they jump up. Their jump check exceeds their remaining movement.
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At the end of the round, they argue that they should not take damage as they are not in contact with the ground.
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End example.
Depending on how pedantic and argumentative the parties are, this eats up table time and decreases fun for most people.
I have five feet of movement left
I'm going to jump 10 feet out over the cliff
I move 5 feet out over the cliff wiley coyote style and hope someone's got a spell or a rope...