Guns and Robes

[Gray Warden]

Hi everyone,

I am currently playing a crafter Wizard in Kingmaker. In her background, she has studied in Nex (to become Arclord) and has had adventures in the near Mana Wastes too. While being human, she has Dwarven blood (she has the Racial Heritage feat) and has always shown quite a badass attitude.

Given the fact that the GM has allowed advanced firearms and free proficiency with them (he has allowed feats linked to the background), wouldn't it be extremely cool for a half-dwarf Wizard from the Mana Wastes to draw her Pepperbox Rifle in slow-motion while her Golem is charging into battle, and do magic things with it?

What I would like to ask you is: are there any items, weapons, spells or combos that would allow me to use advanced firearms with such a character in an organic way that doesn't disrupt its efficacy in battle?

Now, I know you all are thinking about the Spellslinger archetype, but for build (Arclord of Nex requires Arcane School) and flavour (not a blaster) reasons, this is not viable. Same for multiclass and intensive feat-chains (I might talk the GM into allowing another single backgroud-feat together with the proficiency).

I am not asking for a build constantly revolving around firearms (such as a Spellslinger), but rather if you know of any tricks I could pull off from time to time that do not require too much of an investment in terms of build resources, and yet offer a decent alternative to a round of plain casting.

[Dragonchess Player]

You could ask if the GM would allow a variant of the arcane archer prestige class ("eldritch pistolero"?) that uses firearms instead of bows. Just swap out Weapon Focus (longbow or shortbow) in the feat requirements for Weapon Focus (any one-handed firearm). Two or three levels in the PrC (for "Imbue Bullet" and possibly "Enhance Bullets (elemental)") is all you really need.

[blahpers]

Coming up to the end of my druid's career alongside a musket-wielding rogue, I'm thinking my next full caster might just have to keep a gun as a reliable backup for when spells just won't cut it (hat tip to Harry Dresden). There's just something about a wizard pulling a piece and blowing a dragon's head clean off.

Optimizing for it is tricky, though. Usually when I want a gun it's because the opponent has magic immunity or something, so things like named bullet won't apply. A low BAB class like wizard can only take the first vital strike feat, and then only at 11th level. They could use their familiar or a summoned pet to set up their large double hackbut though, then enlarge and blast away, letting the pet take care of reloading.

[BadBird]

The biggest issue with guns is that there's no way to add DEX or any other ability score to damage without multiple levels of certain classes. Add to that the Wizard's lack of outright weapon damage buffing spells and it's a question of where the damage is going to come from, particularly as levels go up.

[doomman47]

I am disappointed the title of this thread wasn't Guns and Robeses...

[Meirril]

So you basically want to use a gun with minimal character investment? No problem. First lets get free proficiency with firearms for only 10,000 gp.

Now lets make the 'best' firearm we can afford! Or should I say the minimum amount of convenience enchantments to make it usable? To take care of ammo problems either shadowcraft or shadowshoot the weapon. The 12k for shadowcraft could be cheaper. With seeking you can make a strong argument that you can skip Precise Shot. Unfortunately Training isn't worth doing for 1 feat. You need 2 feats in a chain to make it worth using over a +1 to hit/damage.
Spell Storing is a classic that works really well with a ranged touch weapon. Agile adds dex to damage, but probably isn't worth doing unless your wizard has a very good dex. If you have money left to burn reliable is probably a good investment since your skills at clearing a jam are minimal, though you could spend a Make Whole to fix it. There are also a lot of various +1 enchantments to add 1d6 elemental damage. If you are planning on using +2 in enchants to add damage, you might consider adding Holy instead since 75% of the stuff you run into is going to be Evil and any elemental damage is ruined by 5 points of resistance.

My suggestion for a high end weapon would be to take a Riffle and make it Seeking, shadowcrafted, and spell storing. That uses +2 out of your possible +5 in enchantments. If you make this a +5 weapon that keeps it down to a total of +7. Considering the campaign you are in I'd recommend Holy and Bane: Fairy to bring it up to a full +10 weapon. Don't be too surprised if someone else in the party steals this from you.

[BadBird]

Agile only works on melee weapons, sadly.

[doomman47]

Deadly agility would work so long as the gun is light, so all we would need to figure out is how to make a gun a light weapon and have your gm allow 3rd party.

[doomman47]

You could also multi class fighter(trench fighter 3) and go into eldritch knight and be both a wizard and a fighter.

[Gray Warden]

Spell Storing would indeed be ideal, the problem is that, RAW, Spell Storing applies only to melee weapons. Similarly, Agile applies only to melee weapons usable with Weapon Finesse.

Indeed these are the kind of tricks I'm looking for, albeit they don't seem to work. Other examples are:
- Conductive firearm (problem: I have got no offensive SLA).
- Something that synergizes with Int.
- Dancing firearm (problem: again, only melee).
- Any one spell that applies to and enhances a gun shot so that I don't waste my standard action just to deal a puny 1d10 damage at best.

[Heather 540]

You could try a dip into Gun Chemist. It's an Alchemist archetype. Instead of bombs, you get the Gunsmithing feat and a feature called Alchemical Ordnance. Once a round, you can fire an Ordnance that does the gun's regular damage AS WELL AS 1d6+Int Fire damage. The amount that you can make is class level plus Int. The Discoveries for Bombs work just fine on the Ordnance bullets, they just don't do splash damage or have a radius unless you pick Exploding Bullet, which is an archetype specific discovery.

[Gray Warden]

A dip into Alchemist might be worth it. I don't like the idea of multiclassing on a Wizard already taking levels into a PrC, but the Int synergy and the +2 to Fort and Ref saves are quite tempting.

I think Grenadier would be better than Gun Chemist though. Proficiency can be achieved via magical items or background feats, while Gunsmithing is not as necessary as for a firearm-focused character. At the same time, Alchemical Infusion is essentially a better version of Ordnance, since it has no limited uses per day (as long as I can pay for alchemicals) and can be improved via Hybridization Funnel. Furthermore, having still Bombs, I can channel them through the gun by making it Conductive, to add extra bang a few times per day.

[Meirril]

Dropping levels in wizard to add the ability to use a firearm is something you do from the beginning of playing a character, not once you're rolling. At this point you'll miss out on 9th level spells to pick up a slight amount of damage with a firearm.

Lets emphasize this a bit. Would you rather face the big bad guy with a 9th level spell, or trade that for a firearm?

You should only consider doing what you can with gold, and maybe a feat. Though I doubt its worth the feat investment since you could improve your spells instead. The gun is suppose to be for when its not worth casting a spell, right?

Personally I used a ring of telekinesis for that. Throwing around Large sized Chakrem it does 9 2d6 attacks. All of it non-magical but its good enough to kill time.

[Gray Warden]

I agree with you, that's why I'm still not fully sold. However a loss of a caster level doesn't seem to me too much when in turn I can get a boost to Wizard's weak saves and the ability to add 3d6 + twice Int on a gun shot several times per day. But again, as I said, I'm tempted but still not convinced.

I don't understand however your premise. Why a single level dip would preclude me from getting 9th level spells?

[Dave Justus]

You will certainly either be one level of spell behind or have one less of your best spell level for every level after the dip. So at level 20, you will have one less ninth level spell. You are also losing 1/2 BAB (which will make your level 20 BAB only 9). Not trivial if you want to hit anything.

That is the big problem I think. The only things you are going to be able to reliably hit are the big monsters with no dex. The problem is, those things tend to have DR and energy resistance, and even a little bit of those things are going to cut your damage dramatically since you are getting your damage from several sources (bombs, flasks, bullets.)

I just don't see anything being gained that you will really be able to use.

[Gray Warden]

I know how multiclass works and what its limitations are, and in fact I said since the beginning that multiclassing was not going to be a viable option.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of capstone-arguments: true, multiclassing means, in general, that at 20th level I won't get a certain amazing ability, but that's more than worth it if it means that, from levels 1 to 19, I had more fun thanks to that single level dip. In this specific case, arguably having a way to consistently deal non-negligible damage with a Wizard that doesn't involve spellcasting means that I will use, on average, less spell slots to contribute to a fight damage-wise, which translates to, indirectly, more spell slots available for other purposes.

So, in the end, it's up to me to decide if multiclassing (or feats, or anything else) is worth the gain. All I ask are options (and I thank you all for all the advice you've given me so far).