Okay sharing is caring and I'm here looking for a bit of advice and broad opinions on my poor life choices
A few core things that I'm rather attached to are,
Class: Druid
Archetype: Nature's Fang
Race: Half Orc
Weapons: Earthbreaker and Klar for, Thunder and Fang.
Campaign: Jade Regent
Key link is half Orc taking human racial traits, in this case Shoanti tattoos. Which unless I've gravely misunderstood you are allowed to as half elves or half orcs.
Alternative racial options would be Sacred Tattoos and Shaman enhancement(assuming I have a pet).
Traits/flaw would be,Shoanti tattoos, fates favoured and wisdom in flesh(stealth). The flaw Mark of slavery.
Feats: 1)weapon focus:Earth breaker, 3)Power attack, 5)weapon focus:klar 7)Thunder and Fang, 9) Outlander 11) improved initiative? Beyond here I'm a little unsure...
Slayer talants: 4) trap finding(not sure if we have a rogue so maybe? But 4th level us a fair way in), 6) Ranger style: twf, 8) ranger style: itwf, 10) ranger style: gtwf or Rogue talant: fast stealth, 12) Evasion, 14) Opportunist
Favoured class bonus could be the Orc one for animal companion +1 damage every 2 levels.
Was considering an Ankylosaurus animal companion, at 3 int i could grab outflank and build for combat patrol. But it's tight on the feats. 1)dodge, 2) Combat reflexes, 5) Mobility, 8) Combat Patrol, 10) outflank, 13) power attack, intercept blow or ability focus?
Items i believe might help would be bloodstained gloves, lenses of the predator, shifting jerkin, pelt of the beast, ring of natural attunement (kami).
Right so... I often like being a jack of all trades but am I over stretching here? Will to hit cope with all these extra offhand atracks even with slayer bonus'? Is this viable? Also Stat spread i guess strength then wisdom priority (feel free to add your preference, will be a 20 point buy)? Most importantly, HAVE I SCREWED ANY OF THIS UP? I'm not infallible and hate making mistakes.
P.s I'm aware I could go crocodile domain instead of the pet but the flanking gaurd Dino does warm my heart. I have looked at a ranged build with worshiping Erastil and getting the feat, Erastil's Blessing, but honestly not a big fan of archer builds.
I’m not sure how you got the proficiency in earth breaker and klar since those are martial weapons and you are a druid. A druid also doesn’t have the +1 BAB to take weapon focus at level 1.
You might consider taking a 1st level dip in something like ranger to make that work out better for you.
I’m not sure how you got the proficiency in earth breaker and klar since those are martial weapons and you are a druid. A druid also doesn’t have the +1 BAB to take weapon focus at level 1.
You might consider taking a 1st level dip in something like ranger to make that work out better for you.
Shoanti Tattoo
Source: Varisia, Birthplace of Legends pg. 6Category Race
Requirement(s) Human—Shoanti
Upon reaching adulthood, you received a tribal tattoo, marking you with the symbols of your quah and totem spirits (see the inside back cover for suggestions and designs for Shoanti tattoos). You gain a +1 trait bonus on saving throws against fear effects. Additionally, you are proficient with earth breakers, klars, and Shoanti bolas.
Is the how i get the weapon proficiency, but yes... had cut Razortusk(half orc feat) and just bumped up a few feats... level 1 feat... hmm will rethink. Not sure what to take at level one, maybe more traits? BAB restriction is a pain for power attack too.
Why are you playing a druid when you are building a fighter?
You will not be casting in combat because both of your hands are full. If you are fine with your spells being limited medium to long term buffs then this could work.
That's a fair point, but the Klar counts as a light shield. I won't get it's armour bonuses the round I do cast any spells ofc.
Rules read:
With a light shield you can hold the weapon in your shield hand as a free action so you have a free hand to cast.
"You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it."
P.152 of the core rulebook.
Level 1 feat ideas: toughness, combat casting, spirit's gift, scribe scroll.
Level 1 feat ideas: toughness, combat casting, spirit's gift, scribe scroll.
Still sad they nerf'd spirit's guide so hard, but even so it could be a good call, scribe scroll also wouldn't be at all bad... but combat casting is funny because I was looking at Possessed Hand(and maybe if I can makes space later Hand's autonomy) which would actually screw with my concentration checks.
But the extra +1 to hit bonuses from possessed hand feel helpful(although they won't kick in until i get thunder and fang at lvl7)and the hand's autonomy reducing all twf mods by -2, to a minimum of -1 feels pretty solid. Love all the spirit stuff, would get Shoanti totems too(totems spirit feats/chain) but alas if only I had infinite feats, I do love the themes all blending nicely with the rules.
Well, I've narrowed it down to spirit guide, possessed hand, scribe scroll, blind fighting or improved initiative. Will sleep on it then with a little rejigging of my feat order see how it looks.
Why are you playing a druid when you are building a fighter?
You will not be casting in combat because both of your hands are full. If you are fine with your spells being limited medium to long term buffs then this could work.
Oh and as to the why, it's the spells! , example: Fey form(let's you still carry your weapons) and other powerful buffing spells, plus other general full caster highjinks. I am making a fairly toolbox character, which is a fun challenge in that I have to find a good balance in support, attack and defence. Plus I've been informed that Jade Regent is a pretty heavy wilderness campaign, a druid fits that quite nicely(i hope).
Nature fang is a good archetype but it still has the usual cleric issue: Where you start off being like a martial, but you have the slow slide into being a full caster. As your spells per day build up you find that you aren’t spending nearly as much time using your old martial abilities you invested so much in, because spells are so effective.
I’m not saying to not do it, but if you haven’t experienced this before it can be a little jarring when you notice it happening. Typically happens around level 5 or 7
Nature fang is a good archetype but it still has the usual cleric issue: Where you start off being like a martial, but you have the slow slide into being a full caster. As your spells per day build up you find that you aren’t spending nearly as much time using your old martial abilities you invested so much in, because spells are so effective.
I’m not saying to not do it, but if you haven’t experienced this before it can be a little jarring when you notice it happening. Typically happens around level 5 or 7
I can appreciate that concern, but i do like a challenge. I will try and invest in a lesser quicken meta magic rod or better as gold allows, to allow a little more utilisation of my martial side while enjoying the full caster fun. Possessed hand's swift action item retrieval does push me towards it as my first feat for this reason, obviously with rods, pots, and scrolls in mind.
WHAT ABOUT USING GOLIATH DRUID FOR THE ARCHETYPE?
Get big, go smash
Tempting as that might be, I'm happy with my Shoanti themed character, getting an effective twf feat build kinda needs the Nature's fang archetype.
But tbh goliath druid has peaked my interest before, and hey it might be my next druid build who knows? , as my last druid a while back was a saurian shaman even though that campaign died early. I do quite like them as a class, but I have gotta have a concept, even though my group isn't the biggest rp crew I like to have a good character story and theme tied to the setting and from there i then look at mechanically the best way to make that character effective.
I was fretting about my current druid being effective, but tbh as Melkiador alluded to above, if the build doesn't deliver I'm still a full caster class. It's much worse for a martial class if a build doesn't deliver. But I think overall this build should work out
That's a fair point, but the Klar counts as a light shield. I won't get it's armour bonuses the round I do cast any spells ofc.
Rules read:
With a light shield you can hold the weapon in your shield hand as a free action so you have a free hand to cast."You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it."
P.152 of the core rulebook.
Run that interpretation by your GM before building around it. You do not have full use of your hand, you cannot attack with weapons held in it, so your GM may rule that you cannot cast with it either.
Run that interpretation by your GM before building around it. You do not have full use of your hand, you cannot attack with weapons held in it, so your GM may rule that you cannot cast with it either.
My group allowed it in previous runs for a cleric, and i think as long as the shield and the weapon aren't used/effective in the round you cast a spell then it's fine, although as a free action it probably means the shield will be active after the spell as you can return the weapon to your primary hand.
Didn't even realise this was a controversial rule interpretation?
The light shield for weapon switch casting isn’t that controversial. The klar counting as a light shield for this purpose may be.
To be clear, weapon switch casting is where you use the light shield hand to hold your weapon as a free action, then cast with free hand, then swap weapon back to free hand as a feee action.
"A traditional klar counts as a light wooden shield with armor spikes. A metal klar counts as a light steel shield with armor spikes."
Obviously I'll be using a wooden one as a druid, but one would assume if it counts as one you'd simply extrapolate that the light shield mechanics would otherwise be available to you?
Tbh pleased that you guys flagged this as a potential issue, thanks again. Best to codifie the whole character mechanically before it hits the table, tbh my old man table still find small errors we've been making for years.
One possible issue I can see is that you are going into an AP where there are long stretches with no options to buy magic items, and from about halfway through you are in Tian (I trust this is not a massive spoiler) which has its own weapons and armour types. You’re investing heavily in two culturally specific weapons that aren’t going to be replaceable with better versions later on.
May I ask why you want to go for nature fang druid? Full-Caster? Slayer-Talents/Sneak Attack? Companion? Combination of all? As already mentioned the level depended Shift from martial to full-caster might be troublesome so another class might work better mechanicwise. But if you don't mind, have fun, who am I to judge ^^
Another thing i would like to mention isn't as much of a "rules problem", rather than a "lore problem". How much it matters depends entirely on your table and how strict you are with the lore restricting your raw options.
As you want to go for the shoanti tattoo trait which gives you the proficiencies needed for your build, the tattoo is something given by a shoanti shaman after a rite of passage.
The trait needs you to not only be human (or count as one), but more specific a shoanti.
Meaning your character would be (or have been) part of a tribe and spend most their life so far as or with shoanti. Some DMs might stop you here.
Either you are a half-orc born into a shoanti tribe (which would mean a pretty rough childhood and miracle that you survived) or a shoanti tribe would have adopted you into their tribe as a token of honor. Lorewise a shoanti tribe would never adopt a orc, half-orc or chelaxian so the latter is very unlikely.
As I already said, this is mostly lore and many tables don't care about it that much but better check in with your DM to be sure.
One possible issue I can see is that you are going into an AP where there are long stretches with no options to buy magic items, and from about halfway through you are in Tian (I trust this is not a massive spoiler) which has its own weapons and armour types. You’re investing heavily in two culturally specific weapons that aren’t going to be replaceable with better versions later on.
I believe we will have crafting feats in the group, but also I think some of those travelling with us can craft and count as a large town(Or some size I'm uncertain)for trading purposes, I'm not absolutely certain but will check that again with the GM, but in any case I will make sure I have a master crafted version of both my weapons before leaving Varisia.
May I ask why you want to go for nature fang druid? Full-Caster? Slayer-Talents/Sneak Attack? Companion? Combination of all? As already mentioned the level depended Shift from martial to full-caster might be troublesome so another class might work better mechanicwise. But if you don't mind, have fun, who am I to judge ^^
Another thing i would like to mention isn't as much of a "rules problem", rather than a "lore problem". How much it matters depends entirely on your table and how strict you are with the lore restricting your raw options.
As you want to go for the shoanti tattoo trait which gives you the proficiencies needed for your build, the tattoo is something given by a shoanti shaman after a rite of passage.
The trait needs you to not only be human (or count as one), but more specific a shoanti.
Meaning your character would be (or have been) part of a tribe and spend most their life so far as or with shoanti.Either you are a half-orc born into a shoanti tribe (which would mean a pretty rough childhood and miracle that you survived) or a shoanti tribe would have adopted you into their tribe as a token of honor. Lorewise a shoanti tribe would never adopt a orc, half-orc or chelaxian so the latter is very unlikely.
As I already said, this is mostly lore and many tables don't care about it that much but better check in with your DM to be sure.
Yes well lore wise I won't go too indepth here, to broadly give a back story.
Farther is Shoanti warrior, and was captured in skirmishes with orcs many years ago and enslaved by the orcs of the Hold of Belkzen. So classic how i met your mother story ensues and eventually my character and his parents eventually fled south, and were reluctantly excepted back into the tribe. My clan Skoan-Quah (The Skull Clan) are a more, if not entirely tolerant sort(you get a bit more lore on these guys in The Crimson Throne adventure path) but characters like the Shaman Thousand Bones are excepting of outsiders. But even so my parents live to the southern edge of the tribes territories keeping to themselves. My character not feeling they quite fit decides to start traveling Varisia seeking his purpose and destiny, all the while listening to the wisdom of the spirits for what destiny may hold for him.
I do love torturing GMs with pages of lore but I have grown wiser over years and give them cliff notes.
And as you see in my above post I want the spirit/nature themes and a nice build using the iconic Shoanti weapons.
But tbh as far as I found this hybrid mix offered me the best mix of that, hyper optimal? no ofc not but that's why I threw it out here as I did make a feat error and honestly critiques make me think harder on my choices. Input is appreciated.
But using my defensive Dino as a meele mate and offering him as a defensive bulwark in our front lines while I can sneak about infiltrate and support, or hold the front lines is nice. My animal companion should pack a pretty good punch too.
Well back to waiting for my late train as per norm in the UK.
If you want to focus on fighting with your companion, have you looked into the hunter?
More focus on the martial aspect (mix of druid and ranger). Would still fit your theme very well with beeing close to nature, and having an even closer bond to his companion as a standard druid (you can look through his eyes on later levels, which a druid can't do).
You won't get sneak attack or slayer talents, but bonus team work feats which you automatically grant your (full-level) companion, so you'll become a nice tag team, with things like outflank, pack-tactics, etc.
You also get animal aspects to buff your companion and yourself, which fits the concept of connecting with (animal-)spirits and spontaneous spellcasting up to 6th level.
A hunter is proficient with martial weapons, so you won't necessarily have to take the shoanti tattoo trait and the half-orcs favored class bonus for hunter grants his companion extra hitpoints.
Just throwing in another option, if you haven't thought about it already.
Another thing to take into account, is your build is pretty MAD.
STR 13+2 (damage, hit, 15 req. Thunder and fang)
DEX 15 (15 req. TWF, AC)
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 16 (caster stat)
CHA 10
For a 20 point buy.
With that you won't have spent a point for CON for those hitpoints you'll want as a melee. You'll probably have to dump INT and CHA if you want to survive some Hits to increase CON, or accept the fact you won't cast save-spells and focus only on to-hit and buffs spells, so your save DC won't matter (still need WIS 19 to be able to cast 9th level spells eventually).
Another thing to take into account, is your build is pretty MAD.
STR 13+2 (damage, hit, 15 req. Thunder and fang)
DEX 15 (15 req. TWF, AC)
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 16 (caster stat)
CHA 10
For a 20 point buy.With that you won't have spent a point for CON for those hitpoints you'll want as a melee. You'll probably have to dump INT and CHA if you want to survive some Hits to increase CON, or accept the fact you won't cast save-spells and focus only on to-hit and buffs spells, so your save DC won't matter (still need WIS 19 to be able to cast 9th level spells eventually).
Ranger Combat Style (Ex)
Benefit: The slayer selects a ranger combat style (such as archery or two-weapon combat) and gains a combat feat from the first feat list of that style. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. At 6th level, he may select this talent again and add the 6th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list. At 10th level, he may select this talent again and add the 10th-level ranger combat feats from his chosen style to the list.
Dexterity is not required, the requirements are bypassed by the ranger talants from slayer. So can stack str/con a little more. Agree stat balance is probably the hardest part i have to figure out.
So, I finally read Thunder and Fang. Thanks for an education. What's your combat plan for the first 6 levels where you don't have that feat?
Well probably just use the Earthbreaker on it's own two handed, ofc support that with spells to augment strength and general combat effectiveness.
Earthbreakers can be duel weilded with that feat btw, kind of opens intresting builds, but I'm keeping to just the classic eb+klar.
For a stat spread I could go...
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 09
Thats just with the base 20 points, then my half orc +2 could go either str or wis, my lvl4 stat +1 can be used push my str to 15 for the thunder and fang if I want to start with 18 wis.