The answer might be subjective depending on the feat, of course.
But, if I want to create a magic item, basically a magic instruction manual, a book that if a PC reads they gain a Combat Style Feat, caveats being that it takes a full 48hrs of downtime to read, it crumbles to dust upon reading, and the PC must qualify for the feat in order to learn it, what should the GP value of said item be for sake of WBL?
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Very, very high.
I’ve heard several of the designers say that items that grant feats (either temporarily or permanently) simply shouldn’t exist. That once you start allowing players to “buy feats” all your design balance goes out the window. It’s not a universal opinion among the designers, but fairly widespread.
If you are going to allow it I’d price it based on at least one wish. So at least as much as a +1 tome. I’d say a +2 tome would be better. So 51,000 plus.
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I have to agree with Belafon on this. Look at it this way over the course of 20 levels you gain 5 stat advances and 10 feats. That seems to suggest that a feat is worth about 2 stat adjustments. So if you do allow this it should cost the same as a +2 Tome (55,000 gp).
Another thing is that the prerequisite to create the item should also be that the creator has to have the combat feat.
The Training weapon enhancement grants a combat feat as long as you are holding the weapon and is a +1 equivalent enhancement. You can get a +1 Training Spiked Gauntlets for 8005gp and have the feat be "always on". Training feats don't count for prerequisites.
You can get an Ioun Stone of Endurance or Alertness for 10000gp. A Wayfinder can attune to Ioun Stones and grant Weapon Focus, Improved Unarmed Strike, or Blind Fight. Using PFS's attunement rules, it's 10500gp for Weapon Focus and 8500gp for the other two.
So a feat is worth roughly 8000-10000gp based on other items. Myself, I agree with the designers Belafon mentioned - you really shouldn't be able to buy feats.
If you do need to have purchasable feats, I think you're better off tying them to an item so that they take up an item slot, and using the Training restriction on counting for prerequisites. I'd use the 24hr attunement rule to prevent PCs from just switching out feats as they please. This set up restricts it to just a single bonus feat and makes it difficult to finish feat chains early. That's probably not going to unbalance anything. I'd definitely keep the 8000-10000gp price. Feats are not at all the equivalent of high level items - you just aren't going to pay 55K for Weapon Focus when that kind of money could buy you a +5 sword.
Thanks for the input. I was thinking about sprinkling a Combat Style Feat Chain manual throughout a campaign. It wouldn't be a purchasable or craftable item, but a unique relic leftover from ages past.
Popular among those who seek to impersonate skilled warriors, a training weapon grants one combat feat to the wielder as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand. The feat is chosen when this special ability is placed on the weapon. That feat cannot be used as a prerequisite for any other feats and functions for the wielder only if she meets its prerequisites. Once chosen, the feat stored in the weapon cannot be changed.
A gauntlet can't be 'drawn' or 'in hand', so it's not a legitimate choice for the Training enchantment.
The language used is a deliberate attempt to avoid Training gauntlets, shield spikes, armor spikes, etc.
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The Blind-Fight feat is worth 8500, adding the cost of a wayfinder
Edit* Didn't see that someone already noted that. But that ioun stone also gives a +2 enhancement to Wisdom.
If you look at a belt of Wis +2 at 4000gp, take into account that it's a slotless item (Optional rules allow for a 50% increase in cost of the item to make it a different slot type, right? So in theory a slotless item of Wis +2 would be worth 6000 gp) That leaves the ACTUAL value of Blind Fight to be 2000 GP and an additional 500 GP to be able to slot it in a Wayfinder. A wayfinder gives a bonus to Survival to avoid being lost and can cast light at will. The value of the wayfinder alone puts the cost of Blind-Fight somewhere between 2000 and 2500, depending on how much money you feel having the Survival bonus and at-will Light ability is worth compared to the ability to slot an ioun stone.
Which is really, really cheap if you ask me.
@ Syries
Slotless has a 2x cost modifier, so the Ioun Stones follow the pricing guidelines.
Also, if it's not Society play, you can resonance with cracked ioun stones. Which means that the average cost of Blind Fight and IUS is 1,000 gp.
Which is really, really cheap if you ask me.
Popular among those who seek to impersonate skilled warriors, a training weapon grants one combat feat to the wielder as long as the weapon is drawn and in hand. The feat is chosen when this special ability is placed on the weapon. That feat cannot be used as a prerequisite for any other feats and functions for the wielder only if she meets its prerequisites. Once chosen, the feat stored in the weapon cannot be changed.A gauntlet can't be 'drawn' or 'in hand', so it's not a legitimate choice for the Training enchantment.
The language used is a deliberate attempt to avoid Training gauntlets, shield spikes, armor spikes, etc.
Then they need to write more clearly. There's no clear mechanical difference between on your hand and in hand. I'd potentially even argue that Shield Spikes are in hand, too. It's pedantic to claim that they're on your shield when you wield a shield with your hand and for all intents and purposes they occupy that hand. I'd like to be clear though that I think Training Gauntlets are cheesy and shouldn't be used (unless of course you actually fight with Gauntlets). Your argument just doesn't hold water.
And either way, the enchantment does mean you can get combat feats for ~8000gp.
Thanks for the input. I was thinking about sprinkling a Combat Style Feat Chain manual throughout a campaign. It wouldn't be a purchasable or craftable item, but a unique relic leftover from ages past.
Quest reward feats are probably chill balance-wise. If it's a series, I might consider giving it a relative WBL price equal to Pearl of Power II or III and increase to the next Pearl level for the value of each feat down the line.
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An alternative is giving them an artifact, maybe that has been broken into several pieces, that allows the use of essentially Martial Flexibility that grants that specific feat chain, for a certain amount of time and for a certain amount of uses per day. Every time they find another piece of the artifact they gain access to the next step in the feat chain.
Example:
Piece one will allow the first feat in the chain gained as a move action 3 times per day for 1 minute per use.
Piece two will allow the first feat in the gain gained as a swift action, or the first and 2nd feat in the chain gained as a move action.
Piece three will allow the first feat as a free action, or the first two feats as a swift action, or the three feats as a move action.
That way 1: players cannot abuse their abilities to use these feats as prerequisites for other feats as they level
2: You can limit how often the use the feats
3: Party members can share the artifact, essentially taking turns gaining the feat chain if they so choose.
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Thanks for the input. I was thinking about sprinkling a Combat Style Feat Chain manual throughout a campaign. It wouldn't be a purchasable or craftable item, but a unique relic leftover from ages past.
As long as the feat granting is completely under your control, it can work out OK. The problems with "buying" feats always appear when players are picking the feats and planning their builds around that option. When the GM is choosing the feat (and when it is available), it's far less of an issue. Especially if you're picking a feat that's "nice but not worth replanning your character."
I'd suggest something like Swift Iron Style for what you're planning. You want a Style chain that is not particularly powerful but that a lot of classes can use and gain a benefit from.
I stand by my estimation of price, but you may want to deviate from that, depending on what the feat is and when the PCs get the tome. You do not want the price to be so high that they immediately choose to sell it instead of reading it. Or so low they might as well read it. Off the top of my head, I'd price it at (number of players) x (25% of difference in WBL current to next). In other words if they find the first tome while level 6, the price would be (number of players) x (1875 gp). The fact that it's a feat chain provides justification for raising the price of the books as you get further into the chain (coincidentally also making it still feel like giving up a significant amount of money, even at level 12 or higher).
I like your idea. I think you've got the right tool to keep your finger on the pulse and not let additional feats get away from you and play havoc with the power levels.
You have it backwards with 5 ability increases and 10 feats over the course of the campaign the game is saying stats are 2 times more important than feats there for the cost of the feat would be half that of an ability score increase but even then that would be a bit much because that would leave it at 12500 and that's a bit high when you can just get an item with the feat on it to give you the feat for 4000-6000 gold.I have to agree with Belafon on this. Look at it this way over the course of 20 levels you gain 5 stat advances and 10 feats. That seems to suggest that a feat is worth about 2 stat adjustments. So if you do allow this it should cost the same as a +2 Tome (55,000 gp).
Another thing is that the prerequisite to create the item should also be that the creator has to have the combat feat.
Occurrence throughout the leveling track alone does not translate to proportionate value. You might have an argument if you had to choose either 5 ability score increases or 10 feats. As it is, though, the two character features are independent.
Rogue Genius Games in their Loot for Less series explained their pricing choices, and they considered a feat to be worth about 5000 gp.
I think that is a good place to start. But even more than 'spell-in-a-can' custom items, I think a lot of care needs to be done in custom magic items that grant feats, and increasing that by a lot, and even just saying it can't be done for some feats is perfectly reasonable.
As well as looking at game balance and such, I'd also personally want to make sure that any item that granted a feat was properly flavored and the whole motif of the item fit well with the feat.
The training enhancement has been mentioned above, and I personally believe that to be a poor design. Not only are their mechanical issues due to it allowing a lot of options, not all of which are any where near equal, but it has pretty much no flavor.