Hmmmmmm.
Well, I really didn't expect to vote the way I think I'm going to vote.
I so wanted it to be Kevin because I thought his last two rounds were OUTSTANDING.
And I still might vote for him.
But the adventure proposal- Dragonrest- hmm. I just couldn't get into it.
Haven't particularly been a fan of Neil's, though god knows he's super-talented - though I actually like his adventure over Kevin's, though I really *disliked* the theater lair last round.
But frankly, I stopped reading both proposals pretty early on, because I just couldn't into 'em. (Ditto Boiling Beast, though it had some great bits.)
Honestly, I think I like Mammoth Lords the best- though I 100% agree with the judges- way, way, too much is going on for a 32 page adventure, and I didn't much like the opening hook. But the frozen giantcraft funereal boat- oh, how I do love that! And many other bits beside. Yes, too much is going on- but if you kept it more giant-focused, perhaps- I liked all the stuff pertaining to the giants the best...
I liked Vashkar well enough- and I really did love dude's Hecataeus lair- so- we'll see.
Jury's still out.
Either Eric or Kevin though. (And I'm sure Neil will get RPG writing gigs out of this contest, regardless...)
I'll post my official vote later...
I voted for Neil, although honestly I didn't really like any of the module proposals (although all had some good points)... I found Neil's and Kevin's to be the two better proposals, and after thinking it over for a while I went with Neil based on the steady solidness of his previous work.
Neil.
Let me echo that, Samuel: For some reason I was expecting "more" in the final round of RPG Superstar '09. I'm really missing what Clark calls "Boomer's/Christine's magic" this time around.
That being said: Based on the title alone, my vote would have gone to Eric. His adventure proposal, as many have commented already, has some great imagery, but it suffers from being too ambitious, too epic. No can do in 32 pages.
Matthew's and Kevin's proposals did nothing for me. Too generic, sadly.
So, after all, my vote went to the contestant I'd least expected to take the cake: Neil Spicer. While his storyline was merely 'okay' (Fey and all that don't really grab my attention, and to top it all, he's using Gnomes? Oh gno!), the professional execution is what really makes this work. I could see this as a published adventure with only minor changes.
Congratulations, Neil - and best of luck for the voting :).
Contributor
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Though I had some sentimental favorites for the first few rounds, I found that I got more pragmatic as this year's event progressed.
As a subscriber to the modules, I have to take into consideration whether I want the winner's published module in my collection. Unfortunately, Kevin's and Matthew's submissions didn't grab me.
With "Denying the Boiling Beast", I find the inconsistencies with Pathfinder canon very jarring from the get-go and I there jus isn't enough "wow" to overcome that.
Kevin's "Dragonrest Isle" just feels too generic for a Pathfinder module. It has some nice story elements, but I immediately found myself trying to figure out how I could to get my players' characters to care enough to take part in the adventure. The title/locale name seems wrong, since the main dragons in the story are NOT at rest. Lastly, the knowledge check at the beginning put me off...it was too much "tell" and not enough "show."
I REALLY wanted to vote for Eric's submission. It has a lot of specific Pathfinder elements and the bits that aren't drawn directly from canon absolutely have the pulpy, fun Pathfinder feel. The whole thing, even the puzzle, sounds like a really awesome experience that players would be able to talk about for a long time. Unfortunately, the scope of it is so big that I, too, worry that the final product won't be as cool as the proposal.
Then there was Neil's submission. I was drawn in by the title, but then put off by the use of fey--risky and potentially annoying. In the end, I'm glad I stuck with it. This adventure sounds like it would be fun to run and/or play. It makes good use of established Pathfinder information, but isn't afraid to add to it in places where information isn't available...and it does so in a way that doesn't require retconning. (I learned that term the hard way when submitting for the first PFS open call.)
So, that's lot of words to say: "Neil got my vote!"
Good luck to all the contestants. I think you all have a lot of talent and skill and I fully expect to see your names on future publications. But of the four possible adventures, I'd rather see "Realm of the Fellnight Queen" sitting next to "Clash of the Kingslayers" on my shelf. It feels like a balancing-the-universe kind of thing...doesn't every "Kingslayer" need his "Fellnight Queen"?
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Let me echo that, Samuel: For some reason I was expecting "more" in the final round of RPG Superstar '09. I'm really missing what Clark calls "Boomer's/Christine's magic" this time around
That's not quite what I'm trying to say.
If any one of these contestants had given us a rational set of hooks and an interesting trip to a well constructed two level dungeon filled with many fantastic encounters they would have gotten my vote over any of the other three as they are now. Any of the four contestants this round would have done a great job at that. Actually I think any of the eight contestants from the last round would have been able to do it. Instead every one of these proposals has 50 pounds of... stuff crammed in a 10 pound sack. Whichever one wins is going to be either drastically pared down or very sparse.
All four of these guys would obviously be an asset to Paizo. Since I'm not going to be able to vote for an adventure I want and all four of them would be good choices as designers I'll have to vote for whoever did best this round. I'm not going to decide that this morning.
Sam
I was wondering when this thread would show up. :D
After careful consideration, I had to go with ...
But, no, it was not an easy choice.
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
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Voted for Neil, as mentioned elsewhere, for both quality and depth of design. Like Peter Jackson's "Lord of the Rings", every detail contributes.
I didn't get far into "Denying the Boiling Beast". Besides early setting logic problems (and I'm no Golarion expert), I didn't find the writing up to scratch and the first encounter and adventure hooks left me with doubts as to the author's abilities in those areas. I note, we didn't have an encounter round this time.
Eric was ahead before I started reading, with a great title, but the first couple of sections seemed a bit weird and arbitrary. It was starting to improve by the jungle section.
"Dragonrest Isle" would be my second place-getter technically and visually (and, contrary to some of the judges' comments, second best title). With all of the dragon-themed creatures, it seemed very Forgotten Realms-ish, which is not at all a good thing for me, and I didn't like the teleport restriction.
I play gnome in PFS play, so I had to go with neilI was wondering when this thread would show up. :D
After careful consideration, I had to go with ...
But, no, it was not an easy choice.
Gnomes are EVIL (and worse really annoying)! I may have to go change my vote. :P
For me the decision became between Neil and Eric, Kevin's and Matthew's entries did have their moments but didn't quite grab me...and finally decided to go for Eric. I think that adventure, even edited, will be more fun.
But of course I assume all four will be getting freelance credits.
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I have voted for Neil.
His entries are always polished and professional, and this adventure takes some very interesting parts of Pathfinder lore (First World and Bleaching) and makes a very good adventure proposal out of it (which with a bit of further development may turn out to be a GREAT adventure indeed).
So I printed out all the proposals yesterday, read them on the bus home (without author names), and came to my conclusion. I voted as soon as I got home. The winner, for me, was pretty clear.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I did not vote in the earlier rounds (I was too busy with my own deadlines to give them a fair shake), and I evaluated all four proposals from a number of standpoints:
-Coolness to Read
-Coolness to Run
-Ability to Preserve Coolness when edited down to 32 pages
-Ability to Preserve Author Intent after developing for balance
After reading, all four proposals seemed a little too ambitious about what could be covered in 32 pages (not surprising, since one of the criteria for the contest is that one doesn't have large-format works to one's credit), and perhaps a bit too 'epic' in their finales. So I couldn't hold that against anyone. These were my thoughts:
Denying the Boiling Beast was too apocalyptic, and just a little Joe versus the Volcano for me. One of the primary rules of writing Pathfinder material is to keep the major pieces intact, and this violated that cardinal rule. Some of the monstrous imagery is really cool, but I kind of wish Matthew would have stuck to more of that and less of the plot devices. The struggle between the two made the proposal seem disjointed, and when combined with some of the English errors in the pitch, that sealed it for me.
Dragonrest Isle was the first proposal I read. A few language choice problems jumped out at first (if Dragonrest is the colloquial name, what's the formal name), as did the reliance on the tale of these dragonriders. The red/silver dragon spirits evoked the Calim/Memnon struggle from Forgotten Realms for me, and not in a good way.
What really killed this proposal for me, though, was the area. Three dragons, over party level, are going to need their own (full) stat blocks. Worse, it reads as though the PCs have to fight these dragons at the same time. As a GM, if I'm flipping through an adventure and see an encounter area with 3 dragons and a sorcerer, I'm done. Put it down and walk away. Even if they're in the same structure (like a volcano), there's no way for a party to survive three dragon battles unless they're way over the dragons' level.
Last Ride of the Mammoth Lords seemed interesting at first. More dinosaurs? Okay, I can live with that (I guess), even though I just read some in an adventure I didn't especially care for. I really got drawn in by the tests of mettle--so much so that I considered voting for this adventure. The slider puzzle at the end made it feel more like a video game than a D&D adventure. Why, exactly, should I want to summon the monstrosity that is the Jökul-Vidja, anyway? The logic of the narrative and the flow of the adventure both broke down toward the end. It feels like Eric was rushed at the end, which is a sure sign that he was trying to do too much... and a clear signal that this is far too big a story for one 32-page module.
Realm of the Fellknight Queen was, I thought, more solidly put together than the other proposals. While it suffered from the same "too epic" problem as the final encounter of Dragonrest, that was something that could be fixed at the outline stage without really changing Neil's intent. More than that, it does something incredibly important for an adventure pitch--it doesn't lock him in. This is a proposal, not an outline, so things like CR and NPC levels are mutable... as long as you don't lock yourself into ridiculous encounter setups.
What clinched my vote, though, was a minor phrase. "Provided the PCs succeed," at the opening of the conclusion. This proposal was so tightly written as to give Neil the space to acknowledge the possibility that the PCs might not achieve the objective of the module. This is a huge deal, and cannot be overstated, at least not in my estimation. The players are the stars, but sometimes even the stars fail, and a module, no matter how short, should give a nod to that.
So, Neil Spicer '09.
I voted for Neil. His entry had fey and I thought they were used well. The others were kinda interesting, but just didn't grab me. I kinda felt like I'd already played those storylines. They were good, just not for me.
Neil Spicer.
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This meme that Mammoth Lords is too big to publish is unproven, to my mind. I posted a comparison to another 32 page module for eighth level character written by Wolfgang for Paizo. Mammoth Lords is near-identical to Wolfgang's module in its number of encounters and map requirements. Take a look before you do your final vote.
The only one that's really wowing me right now is Mammoth Lords, but I've yet to re-read the others.
That's another vote for Eric Bailey--Last Ride of the Mammoth Lords
My vote went to Neil :)
I really enjoyed Eric's proposal, but felt there was too much going on, and definitely there would be a ton of maps (many more than your typical 32 page adventure) to succeed in the size. And to make it fit, there would be some wholesale slashing of elements ...
Kevin's was intriguing, but too generically placed, and felt short on things to do. Then the TPK of the final location ... needed more planning/thinking out to me.
Matt's was just too much and too off from the known history/information of Magnimar. As I mentioned in his thread, I had just read the Magnimar info from RotRL, so it was really fresh for me, and that much more of a slap in the face on what did not work.
I personally love fey and all that fairy tale-esque goodness, and Neil captured it well. Things flow, nothing is overly jarring, and there is room to trim without loss of the overall story if the need happens. Same with the CRs, they can be tweaked down (and will need to be in the final battle with the queen) without harming the story.
Good luck, Neil!
I voted for Neil. My knowledge of the setting itself is truly non-existent so that wasn't a factor. Of the four, it just seemed like the submission that had the best framework and flavor. It was filled with areas and encounters I would love to run or play.
I must say though I'm not sure where the Gnome-hate I'm seeing comes from. I've never come across this before.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I'm actually really surprised by this thread, after having read the comments from the judges and posters on the proposal threads. To look at those, I had figured this would be a very intriguing vote this year - no clear-cut favorite amongst the fandom, and an actually genuine tension for when the votes were announced, a victory rather than just a coronation.
To read this thread, though, it looks like a landslide.
To read this thread, though, it looks like a landslide.
Ahh, but it's only exit polling. I'm expecting the final vote to be far closer, based both on what I've read and the quality of the submissions.
To read this thread, though, it looks like a landslide.Ahh, but it's only exit polling. I'm expecting the final vote to be far closer, based both on what I've read and the quality of the submissions.
indeed, reading over the thread about Eric's proposal, there have been quite a few people who have said in that thread "I voted for you" but haven't posted to this thread. I still expect Neil to win, but I think it will be much closer then indicated here so far.
I normally don't do exit polls, but I don't want it to look like Neil's the only one getting votes. I voted for Kevin because I like the sandbox style of adventure, and I like the links to the Ethereal Plane.
All of them had great ideas that I plan on borrowing in games sometime.
I voted for Eric.
I agree with the doubts about its size, but, honestly, it was the only one the reached out the the screen and grabbed me. The only one where I came away saying, "Wow, I'm TOTALLY buying that module when it comes out."
I totally agree
I voted for Eric
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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indeed, reading over the thread about Eric's proposal, there have been quite a few people who have said in that thread "I voted for you" but haven't posted to this thread. I still expect Neil to win, but I think it will be much closer then indicated here so far.To read this thread, though, it looks like a landslide.Ahh, but it's only exit polling. I'm expecting the final vote to be far closer, based both on what I've read and the quality of the submissions.
Probably so.
I was just saying to my daughter that last year it seemed like a foregone conclusion who the winner would be; there was no real suspense at the final announcement. This year it seems much more up in the air. The exit poll certainly shows Neil with an advantage, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion this time around.
I found stuff to like in all four proposals, but Neil's was the only one that appealed to my own playing style, and in my opinion also had the best design and writing.
So another vote for Neil.
I voted for Eric. But if Neil wins, I will not be displeased.
Chalk me up as a vote for Neil. Good use of fey and the adventure suits my personal style. Good luck Neil and congrats to all.
I voted for Eric. It's much more interesting and exotic than fey, and I think it could be worked quite well into 32 pages.
I voted for Eric.
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Eric. The pulpy goodness of his adventure really grabbed me.
I am in a serious dilemma. Eric's "Last Ride" is definately my favorite and I would normally simply vote for him. However, I can only judge his proposal on it's IDEAS, the imagery it creates, and the "coolness" of it. I am a poor judge when it comes to what would work well in a Pathfinder 32-page module or the (dry) "mechanics" of an adventure. I have to bow to the true judges experience for that. And they seem to agree that it should NOT be Eric. I do like Neil's "Realm" the next best (Eric's 9 out of 10 to Neil's 7). I am trying to decide if the Judges opinion should be worth enough to override Eric's lead in my mind. I have the tendency to think it should. Of the previous Lairs, I also far more enjoyed Eric's "Sanctum" than Neil's "Playhouse." Previous to that however, I did not like Eric's "Vashkar", but really enjoyed Neil's "Gulga."
I need some respectable's RPGers opinion on my ANGST.
I am in a serious dilemma. Eric's "Last Ride" is definately my favorite and I would normally simply vote for him. However, I can only judge his proposal on it's IDEAS, the imagery it creates, and the "coolness" of it. I am a poor judge when it comes to what would work well in a Pathfinder 32-page module or the (dry) "mechanics" of an adventure. I have to bow to the true judges experience for that. And they seem to agree that it should NOT be Eric. I do like Neil's "Realm" the next best (Eric's 9 out of 10 to Neil's 7). I am trying to decide if the Judges opinion should be worth enough to override Eric's lead in my mind. I have the tendency to think it should. Of the previous Lairs, I also far more enjoyed Eric's "Sanctum" than Neil's "Playhouse." Previous to that however, I did not like Eric's "Vashkar", but really enjoyed Neil's "Gulga."
I need some respectable's RPGers opinion on my ANGST.
Vote your heart :) Just because some of us, and the judges, feel that Eric's might be too long, does not mean that he couldn't do a whipsnap of a rewrite to make what he was doing fit into 32 pages.
All the gentlemen have quality, else they would not be in our final four. All of them have a great deal to offer Paizo and us in the way of creativity and ingenuity :) If last year's contest is any example, we will be seeing more from all of these gentlemen as the year turns, and then the only thing that would hold them back is if they cannot for some reason work with Paizo's deadlines and needs.
If you're really in doubt, take a day, step back, and then reread Neil's and Eric's submissions again with an open mind and heart, and vote where your love is. Then, no matter what, you know you voted based on your feelings and likes, rather than being swayed by any of the judges and posters.
I am in a serious dilemma. Eric's "Last Ride" is definately my favorite and I would normally simply vote for him. However, I can only judge his proposal on it's IDEAS, the imagery it creates, and the "coolness" of it. I am a poor judge when it comes to what would work well in a Pathfinder 32-page module or the (dry) "mechanics" of an adventure. I have to bow to the true judges experience for that. And they seem to agree that it should NOT be Eric. I do like Neil's "Realm" the next best (Eric's 9 out of 10 to Neil's 7). I am trying to decide if the Judges opinion should be worth enough to override Eric's lead in my mind. I have the tendency to think it should. Of the previous Lairs, I also far more enjoyed Eric's "Sanctum" than Neil's "Playhouse." Previous to that however, I did not like Eric's "Vashkar", but really enjoyed Neil's "Gulga."
I need some respectable's RPGers opinion on my ANGST.
There's nothing wrong with being conflicted; there are some great ideas in the various proposals, and Paizo wants people to vote on the adventure they'd most like to see published.
How you decide that issue is up to you. I gave my reasons for the choice I made above, but my opinions are those of someone who: a) has written a Pathfinder adventure for Paizo already, b) wants to see all these contestants succeed--in the long term--as writers, c) knows the Paizo folks and wants them to be able to work with the winner with a minimum of fuss, and d) wants to see the adventure proposed be the one that's actually published. I'm not speaking from a perspective of "I know better, and therefore should be listened to," but from my own experience; I've been through the development process with Sean, and I've had stuff cut from my writing by James & Co.
I suppose, for me, I was more judging the pitch itself than I was the adventure. I think Eric's module could make a great story and a lot of fun play. I just wasn't swayed by his entry that it could be a tight, cohesive 32 pages without cutting out a chunk of what he's trying to do.
The thing is, I'm not Paizo's typical customer. I write. I occasionally edit. I often pick things apart until they're less working machines than a pile of gears and springs. I don't expect people to use my criteria for voting, and I don't want them to. In the end, this is about what the Paizo audience wants to read, buy, and run. I'm not really the audience; I'm a guy that gets to come in and write an episode or a scene every once in a while.
Vote your conscience. Vote your "cool!" factor. Vote for the one you would actually pick up from the Paizo store or FLGS.
I have every confidence that all four of these fine gentlemen will receive offers of work for Paizo over the coming months. I suppose the question is really which one will get the big shiny 'The More You Know' RPG Superstar banner.
I am in a serious dilemma. Eric's "Last Ride" is definately my favorite and I would normally simply vote for him. However, I can only judge his proposal on it's IDEAS, the imagery it creates, and the "coolness" of it. I am a poor judge when it comes to what would work well in a Pathfinder 32-page module or the (dry) "mechanics" of an adventure. I have to bow to the true judges experience for that. And they seem to agree that it should NOT be Eric. I do like Neil's "Realm" the next best (Eric's 9 out of 10 to Neil's 7). I am trying to decide if the Judges opinion should be worth enough to override Eric's lead in my mind. I have the tendency to think it should. Of the previous Lairs, I also far more enjoyed Eric's "Sanctum" than Neil's "Playhouse." Previous to that however, I did not like Eric's "Vashkar", but really enjoyed Neil's "Gulga."
If you don't have a handle on what would translate to the print medium, I'd vote what you'd buy right now. Myself, I've posted stats on how many encounters published modules of an equivalent level have had, and both Eric's and Neil's fit within those raw parameters. When you look beyond the number of encounters to special descriptive burdens, both Eric and Neil have roughly equivalent special descriptive burdens. Fitting into 32 pages just looks like a non-issue when comparing only those two adventures.
If fitting into 32 pages is really a primary voting issue for you, however, you should follow James Jacobs's advice and vote for Kevin. Basically, I think that's true of everyone who used that as a tie-breaker between Eric and Neil, because I don't think there's much difference in quantity between the two proposals.
I voted for Eric.
Congrats to all 4 of you though for making it this far and for all the work you did! Very fun reading these past few weeks/months.
