I don't know how to handle surprise in combats.
I understand that Initiative is usually Perception, and that if the characters are sneaking before combat, it can be Stealth.
But how do I handle surprise? If 3 characters sneak into a room full of goblins and intend on attacking them, do I roll initiative for everyone, and then just ignore the initiative values of the Goblins until the PCs go?
Do the Goblins get to make Perception checks against the sneaking party when combat starts? is that what Initiative means?
I'm just not sure, and it's driving me crazy.
This is especially bad if the party comes into a room and you ask them to roll initiative because there's a hidden creature. It instantly tells them that there's something in the room to be afraid of.
There is no standard surprise round anymore. But, the rules allow for something similar.
If the enemies in exploration mode were using stealth as their tactic you would need to know if any PC was searching. Any PC that was searching with their declared exploration activity would roll against the Stealth DC of the enemy. If they succeeded they would be aware of the the enemy and roll initiative. If they failed the enemy could reveal them self in some way or could trigger 331 "Initiative after Reaction" section, ie the unseen enemy readies and uses a reaction to spring their trap launching an arrow. Then you'd roll initiative.
Think of it like the enemy triggers encounter mode, as long as they succeed and remain unseen and no PC observes them only they are effectively in encounter mode. Then, once they ready and react with an attack, or fail a stealth roll and become sensed, seen, etc you roll initiative.
It would be possible for the monster to spring their surprise ambush, with their readied attack, win initiative, and then have a full round to act.
The rules are a bit ambiguous, and I hope they get some refinement, but this is how I believe it is intended to work when an enemy is using stealth and is unseen. If they are merely using stealth, but not in a position to be unseen, you'd end up with the default situation being, everyone rolls initiative. But in that case, the enemy would roll stealth, not perception.
Alternatively, if you do not buy that argument.
The next best thing to cover is the enemy(ies) are using exploration mode sneaking. When they encounter the party you roll initiative. The enemies would roll stealth instead of initiative, if they rolled well against the PC's Perception DC(10+Per Mod) and had some kind of concealment they would be merely sensed. If they were out of sight, they would be unseen. Now, if all the enemies are unseen you'd end up in a situation where they could ready an action and burn the reaction right before their place in the initiative in the second round. As they would be unseen, your players would be hard pressed to explain how their characters were doing anything more than burning an action or two around fulfilling their exploration mode activities.
Zman0 wrote: There is no standard surprise round anymore. But, the rules allow for something similar.
If the enemies in exploration mode were using stealth as their tactic you would need to know if any PC was searching. Any PC that was searching with their declared exploration activity would roll against the Stealth DC of the enemy. If they succeeded they would be aware of the the enemy and roll initiative. If they failed the enemy could reveal them self in some way or could trigger 331 "Initiative after Reaction" section, ie the unseen enemy readies and uses a reaction to spring their trap launching an arrow. Then you'd roll initiative.
Think of it like the enemy triggers encounter mode, as long as they succeed and remain unseen and no PC observes them only they are effectively in encounter mode. Then, once they ready and react with an attack, or fail a stealth roll and become sensed, seen, etc you roll initiative.
It would be possible for the monster to spring their surprise ambush, with their readied attack, win initiative, and then have a full round to act.
This part of what you said makes sense to me, that's how I think I'll run it from now on.
the part after "Alternatively" left me a bit confused, though.
Demonskunk wrote: Zman0 wrote: There is no standard surprise round anymore. But, the rules allow for something similar.
If the enemies in exploration mode were using stealth as their tactic you would need to know if any PC was searching. Any PC that was searching with their declared exploration activity would roll against the Stealth DC of the enemy. If they succeeded they would be aware of the the enemy and roll initiative. If they failed the enemy could reveal them self in some way or could trigger 331 "Initiative after Reaction" section, ie the unseen enemy readies and uses a reaction to spring their trap launching an arrow. Then you'd roll initiative.
Think of it like the enemy triggers encounter mode, as long as they succeed and remain unseen and no PC observes them only they are effectively in encounter mode. Then, once they ready and react with an attack, or fail a stealth roll and become sensed, seen, etc you roll initiative.
It would be possible for the monster to spring their surprise ambush, with their readied attack, win initiative, and then have a full round to act.
This part of what you said makes sense to me, that's how I think I'll run it from now on.
the part after "Alternatively" left me a bit confused, though. Glad I could help.
It is a bit confusing. Basically, if the monsters were sneaking they get to use stealth for their initiative, and the players likely are rolling perception for their initiative. The monster's stealth roll is compared to the Perception DC's of the players, and if it beasts them all and is concealed it is merely sensed ie the players need to roll flat check DC11 to actually hit them. If the monster was out of sight, then it would be usneen and the PCs wouldn't know it was there, then it could ready an attack, trigger the reaction right before its next turn and effectively reveal itself with a reaction attack, takes its turn, and the initiative would move like normal after. If the monster wasn't concealed, then its seen, it automatically fails to hide, and the initiative and combat flows normally.
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