Favored Class Bonus Skill Rank limit

[mjmeans]

Hi,

So I have a disagreement with another GM about skill rank bonuses that is exemplified by the following example. The character starts with INT 10, Ranger 1. So he has 7 skill ranks to allocate. He chooses Druid as his favored class so he gets no favored class bonus. Upon reaching second level he chooses Druid and gains 5 more skill ranks to allocate and chooses to allocate them so that 5 skills are not rank 2 and two other skills remain at rank 1. This is a total of 12 skill ranks.

We all know that at no time can a character have more ranks in any skill than their number of Hit Dice. That's a standard rule.

However, we have disagreement on where an additional skill rank can be applied due to using a favored class bonus.

One view is that the additional skill rank must be applied to a different skill than the original 7 chosen skills since all skills are now already at their maximum possible score due to levelling up. And the level advancement rules and the mechanics of the order in which level advancement happens has implications on where this additional rank can be applied. So the end result in this case is that it is only *possible" to have 5 skills at rank 2, and 3 skills at rank 1.

The other view is that the additional rank can be applied to any skill so long as it is not already at the maximum number of ranks by Hit Dice. So the end result is that the character can have 6 skills at rank 2, and 1 skill at rank 1.

The PCGen program uses the former interpretation. I don't know which interpretation Hero Lab uses. Nor could I find any FAQ about this.

[Syries]

The bonus skill rank is added before any actual ranks have been applied to the skill.
So a human ranger 1/Druid 1 with 10 Int with favored class in druid would indeed have 12 Skill ranks, or 13 if they put their favored class bonus into skill ranks. Where those 13 ranks go is up to the player, so long as the number of ranks do not exceed the PCs hit dice. If the 7 skills gained at lv1 goes into acrobatics, climb, kn:Nature, perception, sense motive, stealth and swim, and the next 6 ranks from Druid go to any of those same skills, you're fine, because the maximum ranks in any one skill only matters for your total hit dice. You still can't put more than two ranks in any one skill because you're only at 2 HD at that point, but otherwise favored class bonus doesn't care about where that extra skill point goes.

[mjmeans]

Syries wrote:

...

So we have one opinion in favor of the second interpretation. I hope others will chime in so that ultimately there can be can be at least a consensus if not an official response. If there is an official ruling for the second view point, then that means the PCGen program is doing it wrong and has been doing it wrong for many years.

[Agénor]

A Human Ranger 1 / Druid 1 with Ranger or Druid as favored class with 10 in Intelligence would get 6 (Ranger 1) + 4 (Druid 1) + 2 x 1 (Human) + 1 (Favored Class) = 13 skill points to allocate. This means he can indeed have 6 skills at rank 2 and a skill at rank 1.

Where the skill points come from is irrelevant to how they are attributed. Only the sum matters, they are otherwise fungible. As such, there is no bookkeeping as of which skill got the skill point due to favored class or whatnot.

tl;dr: This is the second intepretation.

- I believe the only exception to this fungibility of skill points is items giving a permanent bonus to Intelligence as they give skill points to definite skills decided at item creation -

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

It's the second one. The level advancement rules don't say when the FCB is to be applied, so apply it when you gain hit points (if you select hp) or skills (if you select a skill rank). Skills and feats are the last thing chosen, so you definitely have your extra HD by then.

Advancing Your Character wrote:

When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats. For more information on when you gain new feats and ability score increases, see Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses.

[Duilin]

Agree with the other three, second interpretation.

[Tusk the Half-Orc]

I agree with the prior commenters - the second interpretation is correct.

[Melkiador]

PCGen easily gets confused when dealing with skills. Did you try adding all of the skills for one level, before adding the next level?

[Java Man]

The first interpratation makes zero sense. In order to receive the FCB for taking a level in your favored class you must have taken a level in said class, so your max ranks would reflect having that level.

[blahpers]

What they said.

[Pink Dragon]

I agree with all the other posters too.

[JoeElf]

Quote from the original post: "I don't know which interpretation Hero Lab uses."

In Hero Lab, I built a human with Int = 10, level 1 Ranger, level 1 Druid with the FCB in Skills on that Druid level. The character has 13 skill points in total to assign. I was, correctly, limited to 2 skill points on any skill. Adding a 3rd point turns the skill red and incurs an error message when saving. For example, "Perception: You may only have your hit dice in ranks in a skill."