For character creation, we really liked the new system, but when we started playing we saw its limitations.
For example, we had two characters plan on building into multiclass builds with the fighter multiclass. Within the scope of character creation, you can only ever boost your class's primary stat to 18, your next best stat will be 16. This forces the rest of your stats to trickle down. We didn't realize this when building to multiclass and I feel my stats were punished for it, as I wanted to build for archery and finesse weapons (being an elf for this purpose), but I was discouraged by the rules for multiclassing requiring that STR score. I think I'll rebuild it so it has 16s thrughout the build.
My suggestion for this is two-fold, 1) don't be afraid of 18's, the game has the ability score balance already built in, let players have an extra free stat boost from class to go into a secondary stat and 2) a voluntary flaw should be able to increase any other stat, but it should be done at the start of the process when you select your ancestry, and you cannot choose to double up on any boni or penalties. This method opens the door for players who want extra flexibility with multi classing, but doesn't force it on players who don't.
The other thing we noticed, is that the CR system is balanced around fully optimized characters. This means a fighter who only invested 16 into STR/DEX will not be engaging the crit system anywhere near as often as one who does, to the point where it'll become mathematically impossible to crit without specifically building for it. If AC is arbitrarily established to be based off the stats of the best mathematical builds players can create then I see the game catering to a specific audience. My group naturally plays like this, but knowing now that it is enforced by the rules of the game makes it feel more restricting. Rather than redoing all of the math, I think giving players a little more room to play with the mechanics instead works better. Give more tools for fine tuning things.
The rogue immediately decided he needed to attempt to invest more into Deception, but there really isn't much that helps your ability to feint. Feinting is really important in this version of the game, but he and I both agreed that if it becomes such an important tactic that everyone in combat will be doing it, then every class should have their own version of it. After all, it is essentially just trading an action to get a bonus to hit/damage. For the rogue this tactic is obvious, but it helps a lot of other classes too. I like how skill induced status and utility checks work in combat, being a single action to engage a skill or utility like Perception. Being able to crit with sneak attack makes it very good, and I appreciate it being cut down in scaling.
Channel energy was great, and it made the cleric feel like a complete class with access to all its intended functions, and those functions worked independently. The bard also did pretty well, though we all criticized his weapon choice as the whip really isn't that great, he wanted to see how not taking a penalty to nonlethal attacks worked, and how armor not mattering to block it helped it out. Aside from wishing he had just invested into DEX, he wasn't able to really do much with it that was special because critical specializations and the like are locked behind levels and feats. But I really like the direction the bard is in, and I appreciate the update giving bards another spell to use.
My wizard didn't have a lot going for him. I built an elf for the stat and weapon proficiency synergy, but realized it wouldn't be that great at any one thing. If I could do it again, I'd invest a 16 into STR/DEX/INT, but my other stats would still be terrible, being that my CON was only 10, and this was more or less mandated by the rules for multiclassing. I prepared Shield, Light, Detect Magic, and Jolt for Cantrips, and had Mage Armor and Magic Weapon for spells. My HP was awful, and I could not participate in combat without going down, I almost died every fight I participated in. I also suffered from bad dice syndrom when I finally landed my big hit of the night, a crit with a +1 weapon with deadly, I did a whopping 15 damage. Subtract 6 from doubled STR and I rolled a 4 a 2 and two 1's. Didn't feel as fun as in PF1 where my build choices would add guaranteed damage. I was already in a struggle to crit.
Thank's for sharing, you are one of the forum members who's posts I like to follow even if I don't always agree.
I like your suggestions for giving a little bit more flexibility but would like to note that you can multi class with into fighter with 16 Dex or 16 Str so that should help.
The lack of the attack tag on feint and demoralize make them pretty useful since that third attack has pretty low value unless your fighting low level mooks.
Thank's for sharing, you are one of the forum members who's posts I like to follow even if I don't always agree.
I like your suggestions for giving a little bit more flexibility but would like to note that you can multi class with into fighter with 16 Dex or 16 Str so that should help.
The lack of the attack tag on feint and demoralize make them pretty useful since that third attack has pretty low value unless your fighting low level mooks.
That changes a lot actually, good catch!
I like the character a lot better with a DEX 18, but doing so would mean I'm still coping with a 10 CON.
I'd like the voluntary flaw to include a free boost, then most ancestries interact with all six stats at base.
Even the low level mooks seem to be built with the tactics in mind, and feint seems like a really important one. I like demoralize also being a debuff, I think I would like to see more feats that improve the utility of these options. A build that goes defensive could use intimidate and a shield for an exchange of 2 actions and up to +4 AC. Doesn't seem worth it, but it scales that way for the whole game.
Yeah, channel energy seems important, but I'd want other class builds to get something similar. I really liked the cleric build. Some of their feats are rough but I've faith in our guys to hammer that out. Maybe not, perhaps I should dig my toes into the caster discussion next, I've been mostly floating around martial rules.
I think casters felt to weak at first level, but changing my build around may help.
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My group had two Casters, a Universalist Wizard, and a Desna Cleric with human Ambition for the extra class feat. Both did well, I had to play the cleric, which was unfortunate becasue I was also the DM so I had to play a more minor role to let my players have all the fun, Cleric did fell just about right, actually in that case a lot stronger than that just from that extra feat. The wizard was actually pretty useful, they went with electric damage over fire, and them being a more experienced player, elected more utility over damage, since we had a Fighter and a Paladin we were set on damage. Both the Fighter and the Paladin worked out, our fighter was hilariously tanky despite her lack of armor, mostly due to luck, and the Paladin did paladin things to the goblins.
The only class that felt really weak was the Alchemist, which I noticed was probably going to be a thing from the get go, the player behind the alchemist was also pretty much totally new to the more hardcore tabletop games, him being a 5e player exclusively did not do him favors as he discovered that Pathfinder as a rule is not as forgiving for poor decisions, like blocking the only entrance to the room while our Paladin had yet to act, this didn't do him any favors since he dicided to attack three goblins at once with his AoE's and could not kill them, They dropped him really quickly, and were it not for the Cleric he'd probably have died.
What I learned from it, Alchemists probably need a way to do more damage with their bombs early on, or should find a way to be utility, and if you don't have CON and Armor, don't ever step past your fighter or Paladin, You'll get your face kicked in pretty hard.