Why do different races have different racial hit points, and why do half-orc hit points not scale?
The difference only really matters at the lowest of levels, which, by the way, is the time when differences in hit points matter most due to the shanktown effect. Past then, the differences in racial hit points are trivial, which calls to question: why have such differences in the first place?
I personally think that there should be no racial hit points; it should be a flat +8 or maybe even +10 hit points for everyone. The half-orc's extra hit points should be 2 or half your level, whichever is higher, thus making it half of the Toughness general feat.
Racial HP matter most for npcs rather than pcs.
As you mention, after some levels, they don't matter at all, but that dwarf army will always stay sturdier than the elf one.
NPCs are not built using PC rules. It does not matter for them.
Colette Brunel wrote: NPCs are not built using PC rules. It does not matter for them. Still, starting HP and starting speeds and visions are what makes the bulk of the races.
"why are elves faster than dwarves? "
Unless we want all races to have the same speed, same HP, same abilities, and only different in name, I see no issue with dwarf having +4hp over an elf.
Half-orc "toughness" does need more HP though, 2 is not enough to make them an attractive option. On the flip side, they do have the most powerful ancestral feat of all classes. So I'm kinda torn on that.
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I think the idea behind ancestral hit points is to make 1st-level characters a bit tougher. So yes, they are intended to have the biggest impact at lower levels. There's a similar mechanic in Starfinder that works the same way.
The half-orc heritage hp boost, looked at in that vein, is intended to show that half-orcs are about as tough a dwarves, since both start with 10 ancestral HP that gets added to their class HP.
Ventnor wrote: I think the idea behind ancestral hit points is to make 1st-level characters a bit tougher. So yes, they are intended to have the biggest impact at lower levels. There's a similar mechanic in Starfinder that works the same way.
The half-orc heritage hp boost, looked at in that vein, is intended to show that half-orcs are about as tough a dwarves, since both start with 10 ancestral HP that gets added to their class HP.
A half elf is sturdier than an elf and has the same speed and vision.
Comparing half orc to dwarf gives us same sturdiness 5ft speed and low light vs dark, which is about the same.
So half orcs are at a disadvantage here.
Making it 4hp instead of 2 could be the answer to make them more attractive.
shroudb wrote:
Comparing half orc to dwarf gives us same sturdiness 5ft speed and low light vs dark, which is about the same.
So half orcs are at a disadvantage here.
No, they are not. What you forget is that being a half orc opens up a second pool of feats. The orc feats. They are not implemented yet but they will be there sometime in the future.
It would probably have been better if Paizo kept half orcs out of the playtest. They seem very unfinished in the current state.
Asuet wrote: shroudb wrote:
Comparing half orc to dwarf gives us same sturdiness 5ft speed and low light vs dark, which is about the same.
So half orcs are at a disadvantage here.
No, they are not. What you forget is that being a half orc opens up a second pool of feats. The orc feats. They are not implemented yet but they will be there sometime in the future.
It would probably have been better if Paizo kept half orcs out of the playtest. They seem very unfinished in the current state. I was comparing them relatively to half elves WITH the added benefit of the extra feat list.
Halforcs are at a disadvantage because their 3/4 options aren't that impressive, as opposed to half elves that have 2/4 good choices.
Particularly, since both have low light and a skill, we compare the rest.
And we're left with 5ft movement (1 feat worth) vs 2 HP (lessvthan half a feat worth)
I know that, when this was introduced in SF, the effect of this (along with how that game handles ability scores and every class is MAD) was that race made a LARGE difference at 1st level, but that difference gradually faded over time so that by mid levels, the choices you made mattered more than where you came from (a good idea, imo).
In PF2 the goal seems to be making ancestry matter throughout your career: a gnome fighter will always feel quite different from a human one.
Speaking of which, is anyone ever going to NOT take the fuzzy animal friend feat for gnomes?
Big Lemon wrote: I know that, when this was introduced in SF, the effect of this (along with how that game handles ability scores and every class is MAD) was that race made a LARGE difference at 1st level, but that difference gradually faded over time so that by mid levels, the choices you made mattered more than where you came from (a good idea, imo).
In PF2 the goal seems to be making ancestry matter throughout your career: a gnome fighter will always feel quite different from a human one.
Speaking of which, is anyone ever going to NOT take the fuzzy animal friend feat for gnomes?
Fuzzy animal is for the familiar right? My 5th level gnomish bard is a sea captain, and most certainly has a familiar. And obsessive for Lore Sailing. Which is awesome.
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