Duration: 10 Minute Spells don't fit Modes of Play

[tivadar27]

10 minute duration spells don’t really fit the encounter modes. 1 round spells last a portion of a fight, 1 minute spells last a whole fight, 1 hour spells last multiple encounters in the same area, and obviously 1 day spells last until you memorize again. The problem is that exploration mode is rounded to within 10 minutes, so pretty much 10 minute spells aren’t going to survive that time (aren't really any better than 1 minute spells). I’d suggest doing away with these and deciding whether they should, in fact, last one battle (1 minute), or multiple battels (1 hour).

[Xenocrat]

I think the idea is you're running combat mode (round to round) between closely spaced encounters, like clearing a dungeon.

[Igor Horvat]

durations should be,

1 round
1 minute
1 hr
1 day

there can ofcourse be exceptions.

[Blave]

Seems like it's not an issue.

There are 34 ten minute spells in the game. Almost all are utility and none of them has only combat applications.

Most are meant for exploration mode when you are actually doing things that aren't simply handwaived. Spells like scrying, prying eyes or discern lies are usually used in a pretty active situation. So rounding to 10 minutes should not affect them.

[Red Griffyn]

Xenocrat wrote:

I think the idea is you're running combat mode (round to round) between closely spaced encounters, like clearing a dungeon.

I disagree, they've made lots of exploration mechanics 1 hour or 10 minutes long (like identifying magic items or doing quick repair on a shield). In 1e it isn't uncommon for GMs to say searching one room took anywhere between 1-20 minutes. I'd say most 10 minute spells just aren't going to last more than 1 encounter based on how 2e is set-up. I think the duration nerf on spells is far worse than them reducing mechanical bonuses or shifting spell level on us.

There used to be a suite of good/effective medium duration spells that people took (see invisibility, heroism, resist energy, protection from energy, heightened awareness, etc.). Anything on that list has been over nerfed. I feel like it was to promote alternative spell selection. But the nerfs don't recognize the underlying logic of some of these preparatory spells. If you're going into a dungeon with a red dragon, you would like to be able to have resist energy (fire) activated. That rewards good RP interactions with the storytelling NPCs/environment as well as rewarding PCs who prepare vs. blunder through encounters. Right now that spell only lasts a minute so it will have to be a reactive spell. PCs will have to just hope that they roll a better initiative (despite having been forewarned of the danger) and cast re-actively instead of running any buffs proactively.

That isn't a change that I like or think is for the better. I hope they reverse it in publishing.

[ErichAD]

Couldn't agree more. Now that I'm finally into the spells section I'm seeing a number of spells that don't seem to have a purpose anymore due to a much shorter duration. 1 minute environmental survival spells, divination spells, utility spells, and transportation spells seem pointless. Maybe if there were more spells slots, or if PF2 stole the ritual spell ability from 5E, it would work out.

[Asuet]

They already implemented rituals and I like this version way better than 5e's.
I completely agree that spell duration on a lot of spells is way too short though. It feels like everything is just meant to be used in fights and that takes away a lot of the role that casters, in my opinion at least, should have.

[Xenocrat]

Red Griffyn wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

I think the idea is you're running combat mode (round to round) between closely spaced encounters, like clearing a dungeon.

I disagree, they've made lots of exploration mechanics 1 hour or 10 minutes long (like identifying magic items or doing quick repair on a shield). In 1e it isn't uncommon for GMs to say searching one room took anywhere between 1-20 minutes. I'd say most 10 minute spells just aren't going to last more than 1 encounter based on how 2e is set-up. I think the duration nerf on spells is far worse than them reducing mechanical bonuses or shifting spell level on us.

I was thinking about Heroism. I'd forgotten about the divination ones, and whatever else may be out there.

[Tamago]

Igor Horvat wrote:

durations should be,

1 round
1 minute
1 hr
1 day

there can ofcourse be exceptions.

I agree. Tracking minute/level or 10 minute/level spells and determining which ones were still active across multiple encounters was always very frustrating in PF1. Limiting spell durations to, effectively, one round, one combat, one 15-minute-adventuring-day, one full day, seems like the way to go.