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And I do get it that there's some folks who enjoy reverse engineering stat blocks to either check our math or to learn how we built an NPC or both,
I did this for a couple of volumes of mummy's mask - and the interaction I got from Adam regarding how things were built helped me understand the monster/npc building process more than anything.
I fully believe it's why I was able to take my RotRL game mythic - and why my level 20 mythic tier 3 group of 5 didn't ROFLSTOMP big K when they fought him.
It is also notable - that only about 1 out of 100 NPC statblocks were 'optimized' (racial bonus into prime stat - no junk feats - smart choices - etc) - and it was very obvious once you started to understand these things, that you could up the difficulty of most things just by slight alterations.
Hero lab - btw - makes these changes trivial - and that helps a ton also - although to be fair to anyone bothering to read this - I can't flippantly say that spending 'hero lab' money to GM is possible for everyone - it took watching sales and a significant investment to get everything for Hero Lab, as a new GM I'd tell you the easiest thing to do in any fight if the players are rolling through - is to take earlier enemies and just add more of them to the next fight, boss fight gets an extra guard or two - make sure they show up on round 1 initiative count 10 from the back and you will instantly make the fight tougher without needing 'deep system mastery'
Well, they were only tier three, which is the last tier where things are somewhat balanced. But good on you making that fight even more epic. :D
Well, they were only tier three, which is the last tier where things are somewhat balanced. But good on you making that fight even more epic. :D
Tier 3 is enough - with full casters having the 'cast anything' power. We do have a house rule that you can only use 1 mythic power per turn (so if you use it for a save, you can't use it for a power - or vice versa). Just going to level 20 (players are supposed to be 17 when they hit big K) alone is a rather large power shift. Everyone was so pumped up about it they want to get into this one asap :)
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If you guys really need Xanderghul stats, I did reverse-reverse-engineer the stats from book 4 into a full-power Xanderghul here.
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If you guys really need Xanderghul stats, I did reverse-reverse-engineer the stats from book 4 into a full-power Xanderghul here.
I do think those have bit of creative liberty to them :D Like Zutha was supposed to be something like lich necromancer 18, I don't think he was ever supposed to be more powerful that Whispering Tyrant(I think Tyrant stole secrets of necromancy from him, but afterwards became much stronger than Zutha was when he was alive since do not that Tyrant had long time to work his plans and info he learned)
Well, they were only tier three, which is the last tier where things are somewhat balanced. But good on you making that fight even more epic. :DTier 3 is enough - with full casters having the 'cast anything' power. We do have a house rule that you can only use 1 mythic power per turn (so if you use it for a save, you can't use it for a power - or vice versa). Just going to level 20 (players are supposed to be 17 when they hit big K) alone is a rather large power shift. Everyone was so pumped up about it they want to get into this one asap :)
My guys are excited as well to finally see level 20 again, after all those AP's which go to level 16-18. But they understand that I am very leery of mythic after Wrath of the Righteous. :)
If you guys really need Xanderghul stats, I did reverse-reverse-engineer the stats from book 4 into a full-power Xanderghul here.
Thanks, for the moment I'm fine Xanderghul as he is. It's mostly curiosity as to how he was officially at this full power and maybe interest in homebrewing something in the future.
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In general though, if anybody ever plays mythic they should house rule away the exponential stuff like mythic power attack being multiplied by 2 on crit BEFORE being multiplied by weapon's modifier and mythic vital strike being multiplied by number of dice
(I think its rather clear for everyone the original intention was that that mythic greater vital strike would be four times the damage modifier, not 10+ times because you managed to stack multiple weapon size modifiers :'D Like greater mythic vital strike's point is to have it essentially be four iterative attack's damage in one attack, not having it do 1000 damage on crit and one shot Cthulhu)
(mythic otherwise honestly isn't as broken as what people say, only archmage and champion are kinda op, rest of them mostly just give you flavor options. Though there are mythic abilities that are obviously more better than other mythic abilities and it is bit dumb that some of them are just straight up "You can ignore every condition" or "You can ignore rest of the game" since they erase the ways to counter check mythic characters)
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So as to avoid giving James and myself ulcers (for different reasons, though), I'm going to refrain further discussing Mythic Adventures.
Also, I've tried to suppress as much of my knowledge of those rules as possible after GM'ing WotR, so I would be on uneven footing there, anyway.
Nah, I can deal with GM'ing mythic enemies to a certain degree, I just am not up to dealing with mythic PC's again after the disaster that was WotR.
I actually gave Rasputin one mythic tier, since I made him the final boss of Reign of Winter and probably should have given him two more.
Dual initiative should just flat out be a monster power.
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Okay, I've got a few questions about the adventure now that I have it.
1. What happens if the PCs lose? Does Alaznist control everything? What if she's in the Eye of Fury?
2. Are Alaznist and Sorshen not actually pureblood Azlanti? Their stats say human while characters like Belimarius specified this ethnicity due to its impact on her stats. Were they calculated with +2 in all stats?
Creative Director
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Okay, I've got a few questions about the adventure now that I have it.
1. What happens if the PCs lose? Does Alaznist control everything? What if she's in the Eye of Fury?
2. Are Alaznist and Sorshen not actually pureblood Azlanti? Their stats say human while characters like Belimarius specified this ethnicity due to its impact on her stats. Were they calculated with +2 in all stats?
1) That's up to the GM, but as with any failure scenario in an Adventure Path, if you choose to canonize those events in your game, this opens up a good opportunity to further specialize and diverge your "instance" of Golarion into something unique.
2) They are pureblood Azlanti and were calculated with +2 in all stats.
A quick question: in the "Heroic Roles" part on page six, is there any reason at all that the PCs *wouldn't* send one Sihedron Hero to each of the four heroic roles? It looks like there's only upside to doing so. Am I missing anything? (Is the intention that the PCs just get all of these bonuses?)
Been fun reading today so far... wow, this is gonna be big rocket tag.
Karzoug is listed as Azlanti, but not pure-blooded,
When K was printed - there was no other option for Azlanti - if he's reproduced in another statblock it doesn't shock me that this followed him.
Okay, all the books are out and I've skimmed every page! (but not dug in deep - not yet.)
Quick return to a question I had at the AP's launch: Which of the 'Seven Swords of Sin' are relevant to the official plot? I want to include all of these weapons (such as Chellan, Sword of Greed in Rise of the Runelords) throughout this campaign and the ongoing campaigns I'm GMing that will lead into 'Return.'
I see one of the Alar'hai and another, newly introduced, weapon for the Runelords themselves to use are detailed in the covers of each book for the different Runelords.
I see the Sword of Pride in Book 1. And... Not much else?
Am I missing things I can dig into and find more on? Where have you all used (or are planning to use) the Seven Swords?
A quick question: in the "Heroic Roles" part on page six, is there any reason at all that the PCs *wouldn't* send one Sihedron Hero to each of the four heroic roles? It looks like there's only upside to doing so. Am I missing anything? (Is the intention that the PCs just get all of these bonuses?)
Been fun reading today so far... wow, this is gonna be big rocket tag.
Maybe it's to decide what they give up if you need to rotate in a Sihedron Hero to make up for a fallen PC? Per the swapping PCs sidebar.
So I have a question about the aftereffects of this AP - particularly the Rise of New Thassilon. I get that it fundamentally two rival countries - Edasseril to the west and Eurythnia to the east. As I understand it, Belimarius is aided by the fact that his whole city, with all it's pure-blodded Azlanti/Thassalonians and magical-technology, has been brought forward to the present. According to the stat block, that's approximately 9,000 humans. Effectively, as I understand it, pure-blooded Azlanti are back 'on the table'.
But I don't see much for Sorshen's followers. Is it just her and she is building her new nation from the locals?
lol. Regardless, I feel that Razmir has been reduced to a carnival sideshow.
But I don't see much for Sorshen's followers. Is it just her and she is building her new nation from the locals?Why not? She could have the whole domain of Korvosa if she wanted, and from there reclaim Eurythnia's old frontiers and beyond. Who could stop her? Who would want to?
Apologies - I edited that badly - it should read more along the lines of "I don't see Sorshen starting out with many followers".
I guess my thinking is that the ancients would probably look down at present day Varisians as degenerate. Useful for laborers, servants and possibly apprentices, but never as equals. Or has her opinion evolved over time? Perhaps through multiple applications of the wish spell she can "bestow the gift of Azlanti pedigree" upon some favored few.
But I agree.. there is little to stop either of them from extending their influence across all of Varisia, and likely beyond. My query was more about their initial starting resources. Its kind of important for our persistent campaign. We are unlikely to run this AP, but we like to have the effects of the AP felt in the wider world.
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Creative Director
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Sorshen takes over Xin-Shalast as her capital, so presumably most of her subjects are lamias, skulks and giantsAnd what of the city and domain that belong to her by right?
If you mean Xin Eurythnia and Eurythnia itself... those don't exist anymore. Edasseril sunk under the sea, mostly, and Korvosa exists now where Edasseril once did. Unlike the other runelords, Sorshen isn't into conquering and "taking back what's hers by right." She realizes and accepts that the day of Eurythnia is long gone, and also realizes that when runelords try to take back what's theirs in this modern age, there's a LOT more to stand against them. Every other runelord who tried to do so failed. One of the whole points of Sorshen's arc is that she's learned from the errors of her fellow runelords and wants to rule a nation in the modern era that can exist alongside of its neighbors and won't get attacked by heroes before it even gets a chance to get off the ground.
So she chose a relatively unpopulated reach along the Kodar mountains. At first, her nation isn't very populated at all, but over time it'll grow since it's theme is "We have open arms and welcome exiles and outcasts from other lands and will give you a safe place to live and pursue your goals."
Thanks James! That was my impression on her character, but I wanted to make sure. And btw, I think this is a great open-ended plot hook for future APs. (no doubt that is what you intended it to be). Looking forward to seeing how this is elaborated on in future APs and in PF2 (thinking that with all the changes in the past few years a new Inner Sea World map may soon be in order!)
I will say, though, that CorvusMask has a point in that the inhabitants of Xin Shalast are mostly evil lamias and giants. Although, it's probably no big deal for Sorshen to clear the entire city of them (at the power level she operates, it'll take her about a week or so).
And Zi Mishkal is totally correct in pointing out that pureblooded Azlanti are now something which conceivably could be presented as a player option. Probably not, though, since they are completely OP compared to normal humans and other player races. Maybe the inhabitants of Edasseril strongly look down on adventuring. ^^
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Thats the thing though, I don't think Sorshen NEEDS to clear city out of them <_< She is level 20 mythic tier 10 wizard AND CN. She has no real moral need to "Oh, they are evil monsters let get them out here" instead of just dominating them with strength and then telling them to behave.
Can you really expect Lamia's to just "behave", though? And what message would it send to the rest of the world if one of the first races to join her new kingdom is a race of murderous man-eaters?
The giants are another thing, though.
Hm, I will be honest, "Redeemer Queen" sounds like it's associated with "redemption". Unless the lamia stop eating people (or sucking out their sanity/wisdom score), that's not happening.
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What are the odds of seeing full-power Xanderghul? I homebrewed my own version in case my campaign does go down that route but I'm curious to know if there ever will be a release of the official version.There are no plans to publish the full power Xanderghul ever.
Those stats exist, and I'm debating on whether or not to put them online as a blog post or not, but kinda trepidatious about doing so this soon, because I want the Adventure Path to stand on its own as presented, with Xanderghul as NOT the most powerful foe. Maybe later in the late spring or early summer I'll put his stats up for folks to see, but for now I'm not comfortable making them public.
If you want Xanderghul at full power to play a significant role in your game, this is a GREAT homebrew opportunity for a GM, but it's not the intent of the Adventure Path and so I don't want to confuse folks by having someone post "official" stats for him until the Return of the Runelords Adventure Path has had at least a few months to exist whole in the world.
If you're just curious to see how I built his stats, I'll ask you to be patient and understanding, and hopefully you'll still be curious later in the year.
I am definitely one of the stat nerds [mix of baseball card collecting + Dungeons & Dragons as a kid will do that to you;)] that would love to see this down the road. As a fan and customer it really means a lot that you take so much time on these forums to provide such thoughtful and helpful responses. That you didn't completely blow this off ... well done. Your explanation ... makes total sense. Your offer to post May/June/July is magnanimous. When the time does come, how can one best be kept abreast of this small, but fun development?
I hope you have a great weekend James.
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James J - So, in looking through the AP, it looks like at the end, you give a wide birth of outcomes for Varisia:
1. It becomes Thassilon once again due to the many possibilities. With Sand Point falling, Korvosa, possibly Kaer Maga and other major towns, there is no more Varisia.
2. Will you then being moving with Thassilon in the 2e material and erasing Varisia as a whole?
3. The other option is the characters going back in time to the old Thassilon. Will history drastically alter and the current APs being erased as a whole?
And, will that allow for players to now be able to run Azlanti options going into other APs?
James J - So, in looking through the AP, it looks like at the end, you give a wide birth of outcomes for Varisia:
1. It becomes Thassilon once again due to the many possibilities. With Sand Point falling, Korvosa, possibly Kaer Maga and other major towns, there is no more Varisia.
2. Will you then being moving with Thassilon in the 2e material and erasing Varisia as a whole?
3. The other option is the characters going back in time to the old Thassilon. Will history drastically alter and the current APs being erased as a whole?And, will that allow for players to now be able to run Azlanti options going into other APs?
Well if the PC's succeed in the final adventure they can reverse the misfortunes that befall Varisia. The possibility of a New Thassilon would be the survival of Sorshen and Belimarius wanting to continue being rulers and establishing new kingdoms in the wilds of Varisia.
Of course, I'm sure if you run the adventure you can decide that Varisia's cities stay obliterated and the scattered survivors create a new nation with the help of PC's/Runelords.
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Creative Director
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James J - So, in looking through the AP, it looks like at the end, you give a wide birth of outcomes for Varisia:
1. It becomes Thassilon once again due to the many possibilities. With Sand Point falling, Korvosa, possibly Kaer Maga and other major towns, there is no more Varisia.
2. Will you then being moving with Thassilon in the 2e material and erasing Varisia as a whole?
3. The other option is the characters going back in time to the old Thassilon. Will history drastically alter and the current APs being erased as a whole?And, will that allow for players to now be able to run Azlanti options going into other APs?
How it plays out in your game is up to you and your players.
As for how we officially canonize the events, you'll need to wait a few more months at least to find out; sorry!
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I believe that the canon ending will assume that PCs won the AP and reversed the damage to Varisia in the final adventure. Can't imagine Paizo blowing up one of Golarion's fan-favourite regions :)
Not only fan-favorite, but Creative Director-favorite. Varisia isn't going anywhere, I can certainly tell you THAT much.
Glad to hear that Varisia isn't going away! :)
I've skimmed the PDF and have a few questions.
There are two body slot items listed in the appendix: the Robes of Xin-Bakrakhan (powerful magic item) and the Scintillating Robes (major artefact), which belong to Alaznist and Sorshen respectively. However, I don't see these items mentioned in the NPC stat blocks. Are A. and S. wearing those robes, and do the stat blocks take into account all the robes' nifty powers?
How do the three big cities - Korvosa, Magnimar, and Riddleport - react to Sorshen publically returning and declaring New Thassilon? Not to mention places like Kaer Maga, Urglin, Janderhoff, and towns like Sandpoint?
(I'm a bit disappointed that the Mierani elves apparently can't hold off Belimarius. That might change in my version, as one of the Sihedron heroes is an elven evoker from one of the Mierani towns.)
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I mean, their ancestors couldn't hold off Belimarius either <_<
They could, actually. In the maps of old Thassilon, Mierani is shown as an independent enclave between Edasseril and Bakrakhan. The realm of Edasseril is so called after the princess of Mierani whom Belimarius and her predecessors envied and whose realm they coveted but could not possess - that princess is now queen of Kyonin.