Man, a lot of big changes, some problems and disappointments but I'm liking it a lot (from reading it only)


General Discussion


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So before I begin with my thoughts I will say that I tend to play more 5e nowadays so I may be biased. I'll also point out that the entire system changed so the whole "omfg nerfed" and number related stuff can't be judged fairly until the game is actually PLAY tested and not read-tested. Anywho...

All the terminology and cross referencing: I think this issue is mostly to do with this being a played book and a new system and formatting. I hope (and believe) that in the full release we'll get a better layout and format with less flipping around and everything will be clearer. Yes it's annoying right now but it's not a deal breaker and it's not like, for the most part, mechanics need to change to address most of this. That said the terminology on some stuff needs to be cleaned up a little.

Action economy: Personally I'm really liking this system. It's easy to grasp and provides a lot of room for flexibility. Seems solid.

Character creation: I like the process here as well and the race+class+background provides an interesting approach to stats, which I'm really digging so far.

Ancestries: I miss calling them races but that's not that important. I like the setup even if the feats are somewhat underwhelming in a lot of cases. I think there needs to be some fine-tuning here. As for the Half-Elf and Half-Orc issue, I think it's a cool twist to be a modifier for humans. It opens up a lot of room for options potentially but again needs some tuning.

Background: I'd like to see more and more skill feats/skills tied to each one. Not a big change to implement and, given that this is a played version, I can see that being addressed or changed.

Classes: Oh boy. This is a mixed bag for me. Without playing everything I can't really say whether I like the way it works or not. There's some potential balance and utility problems throughout based on a few read-throughs but there's also a lot of cool stuff. I really love the idea and set up of class feats. Some may need to be moved around and tweaked or changed but that's a given for any playtest. I've seen a lot of complaints about how basic a lot of them are but this is the ground floor basic ass 101 level of class mechanics and abilities here. Ultimately it comes across to me as a cool build your class type thing where you choose the abilities and moves you want your character to have. A very cool idea with a lot of potential that, with some tweaking, I think would work VERY well.

Some stand outs for me though:
Alchemist makes for an interesting base class but I'd like the ability to make it more/less healer based or bomb based or mutagen based. That said their reliance on resonance is a huge issue here. I wanna see Alchemist kept as a core class and it's an awesome idea, but I feel it has 3 identities, none of which are translated well and it just isn't working as it stands now.

Barbarian - Love the totems and, while 3 on 1 off seems a little weird (get angry for a bit then a second of tired then go again?) it's a good way to make sure rage gets used more and fulfills some of the class fantasy. Using class mechanics more is almost always more fun. Also did I mention that I really like the totems? I really like the totems.

Bard - I haven't had a chance to look through Bard as much as I would like and have some mixed feelings on what I've sat down with. At least in theory I like the ideas and themes of the muses, with the scholar, performer and ADD master of skills.

Cleric - Another class I haven't been able to really read through and focus on (it's been a very busy couple of days). I like the channel versatility tho.

Druid - Ouch. No. Bad. I mean the super limited timing on animal form? This IS a straight up nerf regardless of how the new system works. Druids are iconic shapeshifters and now you can do it VERY few times a day for a minute at a time. Between those two restrictions what's the damn point? I'm still unsure about animal companions and j ist minions in general but at least the 1 action to command your animal to use 2 might be decent action economy and the work together benefits are cool and unique. But Druid seems to need some love in a bad way.

Fighter - I really like this. Class feats work VERY well here IMO. It feels very right. Also the enhancement/open/press abilities or terms or whatever are super cool IMO. Honestly this might be the best version of a fighter I've seen. It might be too early to day that but damn I'm actually hyped for this.

Monk - Similar to fighter. I like the set up at least and the feats essentially equating to abilities works well here.

Paladin - Not much to say right now

Ranger - Same as above

Rogue - Haven't looked through as well as others but looks good. I've been spoiled a little by how sneak attack works in 5e and how much easier it is but that isn't a big deal really.

Sorcerer - Really loving how bloodlines work. Really really awesome IMO.

Wizard - Not much to say at present

Skills: Cool that skills are now broken down by action. Not cool that recalling knowledge takes an action. Again some of it needs some tweaking but I like it overall.

Feats: Some good some bad. Battle Medic bolstering isn't a great move IMO but we'll see.

Equipment: Denting - Ehh. Cool idea, missed execution? Full Plate - Just worse than 1/2 plate now? Weapon Traits - Uhh that's a lot of stuff. It's cool in theory but I'll wait to see it in practice.

Magic and Magic Items - I haven't looked over this much due to the sheer amount of content. Also, it doesn't mean as much since there's a limit to what one can glean outside of actual play and practice. I like the idea of the four types of magic tho. And I'm just not getting into magic items right now. I will say I'm cautious about resonance. We'll see how it works out but I'm not entirely sold on the idea so far.

Archetypes and Multiclassing - So I REALLY like these. In theory. It's a VERY cool way to do prestige classes. For Archetypes...it's very much not the same as 1e. It doesn't modify a class which...I mean like I said with Alchemist, I miss it there. In other classes the way feats work means it's already kinda worked in. The pirate is whatever and Cavalier is cool but I'd like the see what else Paizo has got. Multiclassing...I mean...it's a very awesome idea and potential way to do it but I don't think the balance is quite there yet. On the one hand the half X and half Y is totally missing as an option and the X with a splash of Y is too weak to warrant it. It needs some work and balance.

All told I'm very excited to try 2.0 and see the final product. It has some issues to work out, sure, but most things do. The systems themselves though seem fantastic and, with work, I can see 2e far surpassing 1e after some changes. I know there's a lot of knee jerk reactions and frustration with some parts and A LOT of comparing to 1e, especially with magic and numbers, but I feel like that might change once people start actually playing and getting used to things. And I'm sure any other problems will mostly be ironed out before release. Overall quite happy with 2e!


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Glad to see more thoughtful and positive threads. I agree that there needs to be some serious formating and rebalancing updates in some areas. But I love the core game engine.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tithron wrote:
Glad to see more thoughtful and positive threads. I agree that there needs to be some serious formating and rebalancing updates in some areas. But I love the core game engine.

Exactly. The bones of this system are amazing IMO. I like the basics of just about everything. It's just a number of balance/number tweaks and formatting stuff so far. And even for the formatting after reading/skimming through the book a couple of times it isn't even that bad.

I feel like A LOT of people are comparing 2e to 1e especially in numbers and overreacting before we even see how it all works in play, and then acting like this is the final product. I'm genuinely excited and have high hopes for the final product. I think it's gonna be something really special, a blend of PF, 4e and 5e; taking some of the best parts of all three and offering us something amazing.


Yes, Paizo has 10 years of other games and ideas to draw from. And all the people that really do want to play 3.5 until the sun burns out can keep playing PF1. I do not understand this anger at the NEW edition being NEW. Also the term video-gamey. God forbid that TableTop RPGs take inspiration from a multi-billion dollar industry.

I agree, with some acclimation a lot of formating issues and jargon issue will not be as much of a barrier.

I am very excited. And I love how combat plays.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'll give it another look tomorrow once I get my tablet charged up and can bring it to work to read stuff in my down time. I'll probably have a few more specific thoughts about stuff but in the meantime it's nice to see some positivity around here. You would think Paizo just murdered tabletop gaming based on some of the threads/posts.


Murdered it and then dragged it through town to the jeers of onlookers. It has been mostly civil, but some people are deffinetly not thrilled.

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