I know the basic answer is "play what you want to play"
My character is stealth oriented with Precision Damage from the Vigilante stalker class.
Current group consists of an AP, Cleric, Alchemist (non melee), and a Sorcerer.
Im at a place where I can really go two routes, melee (non dual) or ranged.
Not sure at this point what benefit the melee would be over the ranged. Little more weapon damage vs the safety distance buffer for a light armored character to not be in the middle of melee. But seems ranged appears to soak up a bit more feats to be effective. I wont be having a ton of level feats after lv 5 (long story but just assume no level feats after 5th) so most my feats will come as a result of the vigilante class talents.
Pretty high stats with str 19 and dex 16. Can flip flop if needed as the game is pretty new (3rd session)
Can someone help me with pros/cons here to work this out?
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Why not dual weild? Those precision dice thrive on having as many attacks as possible. Having that extra damage dice is really the only viable way of using twf. With 19 dex and 16 str, you would make good use with Lethal Grace and have higher AC.
As a vigilante you have more talents that support melee combat than you do with ranged.
If you want to go ranged, why not go inquisitor, Zen archer, fighter, or any other class that has actual features that support your fighting style? Ranged builds that use precision dice are hard to make, typically dont come online until mid to high level, and require complete dedication of all your available feats to it.
I really dont want to go the DW route with this one. Done that before and thinking of another concept.
This is what I have. Please critique and advise:
Lv 1 is Spiritualist. 0 BAB but decent saves. Gives access to cantrips and lv 1 spells which isnt great but not bad here and there. Phantom provides skill focus Diplomacy and Sense motive (nice for the social side of the Vigilante). Plus incorporeal phantom to check inside rooms, etc
Lv 2+ Vigilante
Feats so far:
Human: Focus Study - gives skill focus lv 1/8/16 - cannot think of a better human feat for any class
Lv 1: Amateur Swashbuckler- Dodging Panche - could be a lifesaver if caught in melee when you are wearing light armor
Lv 3: Dedicated Adversary (human) +2/+2 goes a long way with a 3/4 BAB and being 1 BAB come lv 3
Possible 1 lv dip or switch out for the Spiritualist taking Urban Ranger for the favored enemy which would free up the lv 3 feat for something else and give +1 BAB. BUT that is one more lv delay from Vigilante class if dipping. Not sure if this is worth switching out the benefits of the Spiritualist
This is my concept: Face + stealth character that takes out the softer targets like wizards, etc while the rest of the party deals with the front line. Str mod does great damage with 2h along with the precision damage when you catch these easier targets.
Guess I could take the Accomplished Sneak Attacker for addition 1d6 if Ranger takes the place of the Dedicated Adversary feat
Initially I was considering dropping feats into the Intimidation line but removed to not step on a party members toes who was going Intim build but he hasnt showed the last 2 games so this week absence is his third strike.
Still a lot up in the air. GM has been pretty flexible with what I run since we are only in the game three sessions now but I do need to get something firmed up fairly soon.
I just don't see a whole lot of combat utility here. Sneak attack is hard to pull off reliably, especially if trying to stealth to get it.
I'd say well over half of the combats I have run or been part of don't have 'softer targets.' The whole sneak around and take out people is a cool concept, but it is a concept that is nearly impossible to translate well into a Pathfinder game. I strongly suggest you have a plan for what you are going to do in combat if sneaking up isn't a viable tactic and for rounds after the first one.
I also question the Focus Study option. Yes, one one hand 3 feats for 1 is a pretty good deal, but they are generally considered weak feats. More importantly, it is trading something you a weak in (combat ability) for being better at something you will already be quite strong in (skills.) In most games, most of the game time is spent in combat, building a character that isn't fun to play when the fighting is going on is usually unsatisfying.
Not sure at this point what benefit the melee would be over the ranged. Little more weapon damage vs the safety distance buffer for a light armored character to not be in the middle of melee. But seems ranged appears to soak up a bit more feats to be effective. I wont be having a ton of level feats after lv 5 (long story but just assume no level feats after 5th) so most my feats will come as a result of the vigilante class talents.
Do you have any way to reliably get your Hidden Strike damage?
At the moment, your only two options are to either act first or flank.
A ranged combat style would remove the flanking alternative.
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Guess I could take the Accomplished Sneak Attacker for addition 1d6 if Ranger takes the place of the Dedicated Adversary feat
Hidden Strike is not Sneak Attack. Accomplished Sneak Attacker isn't a feat you can take as a vigilante.
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This is my concept: Face + stealth character that takes out the softer targets like wizards, etc while the rest of the party deals with the front line. Str mod does great damage with 2h along with the precision damage when you catch these easier targets.
If you actually get your precision damage, that is. And even then, you'd deal more damage if you took the Avenger Specialization and used Power Attack.
True but Avenger to me just seems like a d8 fighter with more skill points.
On the combat, the 19 (20 next lv) would give a nice boost on to hit. Add with the Dedicated Adversary feat and that gives a +7?+7 to go with the low BAB. Granted, you are really only looking at 1 HS attack but that should kinda hurt.
Vig has a talent called Sniper that pushes the HS range out past 30 feet. So combine that with obscurement and you have a pretty nasty sniper.
Dunno. Just seems that there should be more than just the normal charge in- flail wildly until nothing moves approach.
PS. This character is hopefully going the vampire route (evil game) so not sure if that tidbit will help
True but Avenger to me just seems like a d8 fighter with more skill points.
...and Social Talents, some of which are very worthwhile.
And since you're lacking feats, something with bonus combat feats may be what you're looking for.On the combat, the 19 (20 next lv) would give a nice boost on to hit. Add with the Dedicated Adversary feat and that gives a +7?+7 to go with the low BAB. Granted, you are really only looking at 1 HS attack but that should kinda hurt.
19 what?
Vig has a talent called Sniper that pushes the HS range out past 30 feet. So combine that with obscurement and you have a pretty nasty sniper.
Yeah, that talent is pretty great.
But ranged combat is feat-intensive, which is a major problem for you.Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Rapid Shot.
That's about the baseline for ranged combat, and that would be all your available feats.
And what will you do if there is no concealment?
Dunno. Just seems that there should be more than just the normal charge in- flail wildly until nothing moves approach.
As with all else fun, you'd need feats for that. If you want to do more than just swing a two-handed weapon, then work for that goal.
For example, if you want to redirect your foe's attack into their ally while counterattacking them at the same time, you'd need at least two feats and one level into Swashbuckler.
Rondelero Swashbuckler
1. Dodge
Avenger Vigilante
2. (Social Talent:) Social Grace
3. Redirect Attack, (Vigilante Talent:) Shield of Blades
(You can wield a one-handed weapon with two hands for 1.5x Str dmg and still regain panache)
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Well, here's a way to semi-reliably get HS dmg as a pure stalker vigilante, no multiclassing:
Human, starting at 19 dex, focused study alternate trait
1) PBS
1) skill focus(stealth)
2) Signature Weapon (Longbow) or other choice
3) rapid shot
4) Lethal Grace (to switch hit if needed)
5) expert sniper
6) rogue talent: Superior Sniper
7) Hellcat Stealth
8) your choice of Vig. talent + Skill Focus (Diplomacy or Bluff)
9) signature Skill (Stealth) [reduces all penalty for sniping to 0, alongside Expert Sniper] or Precise Shot
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I'm going to question the value of Rapid Shot. If you chose to do Rapid Shot, that means you can't hide afterward. It doesn't really gain value until you pick up Expert Sniper, which means if you plan on getting both take a different feat and then retrain to get both Expert Sniper and Rapid Shot in the same level.
If you plan on picking up Hide in Plain Sight, and you already know cantrips, you might pick up the meta magic feat Eclipsed Spell to turn a zero level light cantrip into a darkness spell. Or talk someone else into doing it for you.
Rapid Shot is a prereq for Master Sniper, which is gained at 6th level from the rogue talent Superior Sniper. Normally you can only make a standard action attack to snipe and a move action go reenter stealth. With Master Sniper you get 2 shots. It's one of the better ways to get precision dice on a ranged weapon. Otherwise you have to go the ranged feint route or other means that don't allow you to make more than one attack a round.