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I can't take seriously any analysis that thinks a healer...
Um, yes.. the healer not in the front ranks is part of the point I was making. But they are correct that the discussion has digressed from Resonance, which was not my intent.
If Resonance is a good thing because it adds to attrition based adventures, then I think they should add it for warrior weapons and armor the same way it is being added to other magic items. If it is not a good thing, then I don't like they are adding it. If the problem is that warriors tend to tank their charisma stat, which results in them not having enough Resonance points, then maybe they need to rethink what gives people resonance points rather than to not charge warriors because they have more important things to spend stat points on.
More to the point, because how resonance works with some items changes based on your level I believe that we are approaching abusive levels of book keeping to track all your gear.
Does anyone know if they have talked about regaining points yet? For example, if it only takes the second edition version of a long rest to be able to spend points on my staff.. could I long rest, put more charges in my staff, long rest, put more charges in my staff, long rest, put more charges in my staff.. all in one day? So I can put more charges 3 x per day?
If resonance points don't come after a long rest, but at dawn instead.. does that mean that if we run low on resonance our group needs to stop at 10am, rest all day, dither about until dawn when Resonance updates, and then get going again? I'm not sure I like the idea of the party being stuck waiting for a day and a half at low levels while they wait for Resonance to come back so that characters can use their magic items again.
Boojum
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If you think attrition based play has any place in game design, then healing must be limited.
My thoughts on attrition-based dungeon design are reflected in a scene from Order of the Stick: Origin of the PCs. I can't find that book on my shelf to quote it directly. I must have lent it out. In summary, the lich Xykon and the goblin cleric Redcloak scryed the Order of the Stick party entering their stronghold via Xykon's crystal ball. Redcloak suggested they promptly send a force of their finest troops to subdue the trespassers immediately. Xykon vetoed the idea and told Redcloak to arrange their weakest troops in front of the party in small groups. Then heartless (literally) Xykon settled down in front of his crystal ball and said, "That will provide this week's entertainment."
I expect a well-run stronghold to have sentries who will call the alarm and other guards will come running. My PCs have to either avoid the sentries or subdue them quietly. Though in two cases over the last 7 years, the party's solution was lightning strikes that reached the boss's room before the other guards could muster. No time for slow low-level healing there, only high-level healing on a victim of critical hits.
Dungeons run by separate groups where the party has to fight through unrelated hostiles to reach their goal are a more suitable place for attrition. My players tend to perform reconnaissance and deal with the separate groups diplomatically. It makes for great roleplaying; nevertheless, it has the same setup as the attrition-based dungeon. Limited healing works fine for them there, too.
I asked my wife about attrition-based play. She commented about parties that go 15 minutes into a dungeon, teleport out before reinforcements arrive, and rest for the day safely in an inn. She also knows that when a party did that while I was GM, on the fourth such day the enemy wizard teleported a commando team after them, heh heh.
I accidentally scrolled up the page and reread Boojumbunn's comment from Friday:
Finally, you come to "what you can do in a round." Let us say you are a character with some healing ability and some melee ability and some armor. You don't heal as much as someone who dedicated their characters upgrades for healing, and you don't hit very often, and you don't do much damage.. but you do a bit of everything. You are in the front line fighting a monster and a nearby companion has taken a lot of damage. You can either attack a monster and do a bit of damage.. or you can shift out of combat and heal some of the damage on your companion, but you can't do both... and sometimes you can't shift to do the healing. Also, the amount of healing you can do may end up doing just 1 hits worth of healing because you didn't ramp your healing up using feats.
Among my players, who are experts in teamwork, the injured PC would back out of the front line and another PC would take his place. Or perhaps the wizard would put up a barrier. The retreated PC would drink a few potions, since that would not occupy another party member, and then return. That is the heaviest use of healing magic items in my games.
The advantage of the part-time healer in the front line is that if he were injured and retreated, then he could heal himself with better remedies than potions. In one party, the main frontline combatants where a battle oracle and a paladin.
I can't take seriously any analysis that thinks a healer should be in the front rank.Um, yes.. the healer not in the front ranks is part of the point I was making. But they are correct that the discussion has digressed from Resonance, which was not my intent.
If Resonance is a good thing because it adds to attrition based adventures, then I think they should add it for warrior weapons and armor the same way it is being added to other magic items. If it is not a good thing, then I don't like they are adding it. If the problem is that warriors tend to tank their charisma stat, which results in them not having enough Resonance points, then maybe they need to rethink what gives people resonance points rather than to not charge warriors because they have more important things to spend stat points on.
More to the point, because how resonance works with some items changes based on your level I believe that we are approaching abusive levels of book keeping to track all your gear.
Does anyone know if they have talked about regaining points yet? For example, if it only takes the second edition version of a long rest to be able to spend points on my staff.. could I long rest, put more charges in my staff, long rest, put more charges in my staff, long rest, put more charges in my staff.. all in one day? So I can put more charges 3 x per day?
If resonance points don't come after a long rest, but at dawn instead.. does that mean that if we run low on resonance our group needs to stop at 10am, rest all day, dither about until dawn when Resonance updates, and then get going again? I'm not sure I like the idea of the party being stuck waiting for a day and a half at low levels while they wait for Resonance to come back so that characters can use their magic items again.
Boojum
I am confused why resonance ignores magic weapons. I presume that resonance on worn magic items is supported to replace the magic-item slots in Pathfinder 1st Edition. Magic weapons don't require a magic-item slot in PF1 so they don't require resonance in PF2. Held-in-hand is not a magic-item slot, probably because PF1 had no need for a rule that characters could not hold multiple magic weapons in each hand.
I had a thought on regaining resonance. Removing magic garb in PF1 frees up the item slot to put on another magic item in the same slot. Yet removing magic garb in PF2 does not return the resonance. What if it did? What if the resonance was only lent to the worn item? An injured party member could remove a ring or an amulet and have a resonance restored to drink a potion. Divesting an investment would be balanced, because the character would not be able to re-invest the ring or the amulet for its benefit again until the next day.
I do like the idea that someone can regain resonance by divesting worn items. So you get the situation where you want to pour a potion down the throat of an unconscious person who is dying and out of resonance, you can ensure the potion works by, say removing a magic ring.
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If a sword doesn't have resonance because it is "in hand" and not in a slot, then I would expect wands to also not have resonance, because they are in hand and not in a slot. I don't think they left resonance off of swords because it is in hand, I think they did it so Fighters don't have to spend points in Charisma to use magic swords. I expect Magic Armor will also be exempt, but I haven't seen that stated either way... yet.
If a sword doesn't have resonance because it is "in hand" and not in a slot, then I would expect wands to also not have resonance, because they are in hand and not in a slot. I don't think they left resonance off of swords because it is in hand, I think they did it so Fighters don't have to spend points in Charisma to use magic swords. I expect Magic Armor will also be exempt, but I haven't seen that stated either way... yet.
Paizo also wants resonance to limit consumables, so wands and potions require resonance to activate.
As for armor:
Like other worn items, you must invest armor; that is, you have to spend resonance to gain its magical effects. If your armor has an activated property, you must have invested the armor before you can use that ability. Let's look at an example of such a property.
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If a sword doesn't have resonance because it is "in hand" and not in a slot, then I would expect wands to also not have resonance, because they are in hand and not in a slot. I don't think they left resonance off of swords because it is in hand, I think they did it so Fighters don't have to spend points in Charisma to use magic swords. I expect Magic Armor will also be exempt, but I haven't seen that stated either way... yet.
A sword requires resonance to use its active abilities same as a wand.
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If a sword doesn't have resonance because it is "in hand" and not in a slot, then I would expect wands to also not have resonance, because they are in hand and not in a slot. I don't think they left resonance off of swords because it is in hand, I think they did it so Fighters don't have to spend points in Charisma to use magic swords. I expect Magic Armor will also be exempt, but I haven't seen that stated either way... yet.
I am pretty sure Magic Armor costs resonance, and I am very confident that whichever way they land on that will also be how bracers of armor work, so there will definitely be parity between martials and casters on that point.
Also, magic swords DO cost resonance if they have an ability that needs to be activated, like launching a ray of fire. The mechanics of what costs resonance actually seem fairly straightforward TBH and fairly consistent. (The points I am concerned over have nothing to do with weapons, and more to do with charges and resonance on the same item feeling clunky, and strictly non-magical elixirs seeming to cost resonance being counter-intuitive.)
Items cost resonance if they are require activation or actively infusing your body with something. Wands require you to use some of your own internal magic to get that thing jumpstarted, as do many other items. A potion mixes with your own internal resonance when you drink it to activate. A Cloak of Elvenkind requires attuning your body to it for it to actually make you stealthier, boots require resonating with your body to make you faster, etc. It occurs to me that this is a pretty clever reason for Armor Potency runes to actually add to saves and perhaps touch AC, as it shows the armor's magic is actually mingling with your being in a meaningful way instead of just being a stronger material to cover your body with. Also an additional reason to axe things like rings of protection which just created static effects external to your body.
But some items don't need to be activated or invested in your essence. They just are. Swords qualify for that. You know how a +1 longsword sword adds +1 damage die when swung? Theoretically, if someone were to launch it telekinetically, it would do 2d8 as compared to the 1d8 of a mundane longsword, same as if it was swung. (Incidentally, this ties into why I don't think potency runes should add to accuracy, only damage. That kind of goes against this paradigm and isn't as intuitive as the crafted balance of the weapon making it easier to wield anyway.) However, if you want your sword to dispel magic or shoot lasers you are going to have to activate it the same as a wand.
Stuff like the Armageddon Orb doesn't seem to require resonance. It just is. (Well, maybe to actually set it up, especially if it is tied to your death or something. But certainly not to trigger it.) I'm speculating here a little, but I bet things like bags of holding and portable holes won't cost resonance either. Probably not an Immovable Rod either.