Can we get a clarification on how to fill out the Reputation section of a Chronicle?


Starfinder Society

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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It's getting ridiculous how little agreement there is on this. Can we please get some official guidance?

At PaizoCon last weekend I played three SFS scenarios. Each GM filled out the Reputation section in a different manner. None of which were the way I fill them out. And I heard of at least one other way of filling out the reputation. I know some of these are clearly wrong, I'm just including them for completeness.

Method 1: Player writes current reputation to left of bar. GM or player writes new total to right of bar.

Quote:
Second Seekers (L. E.) 29|31

Method 2: Player writes current reputation to the left of bar. GM writes reputation gained to the right of the bar.

Quote:
Second Seekers (L. E.) 29|+2

Method 3: GM writes reputation gained on both sides of the bar

Quote:
Second Seekers (L. E.) 2|2

Method 4: GM writes new total on both sides of the bar.

Quote:
Second Seekers (L. E.) 31|31

Method 5: GM writes reputation gained to left of bar, player writes new total to right of bar.

Quote:
Second Seekers (L. E.) +2|31

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This is why we're trying to redesign the Chronicle ^_^

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

FWIW, I don't believe the GM is responsible for tracking the player's Reputation. There's no box for their initials, and nothing is shaded. I personally don't fill it out when I GM, but I do when I play.

To have that be a responsibility of the GM would increase the duration of the mad rush at the end of every scenario as the players scatter like cockroaches and the store locks the doors on your way out.

* ⦵⦵⦵⦵

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Starfinder Superscriber

The left side of the "|" is for previous total, the right side for new total.

As a GM I've put the increased amount on the line, eg "Wayfinders +2", and crossed out the lines I don't use (including infamy). I leave it to the player to fill out the "_|_" part.

The Exchange * ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent aka Shaudius

Method 1 is the correct method as per the guide, if you look at page 18 of the guide these boxes are marked W and X to which it says "Each player should also list the factions for which her character earned Reputation during the adventure (V) and her current Reputation with those factions (W)."

And furthermore, "Determine how much Fame the character earned over the course of the scenario. A character can typically earn a maximum of 2 Fame per scenario; 1 Fame for each success condition completed. Enter the number of Fame earned in the shaded Fame Gained field (L) and initial the adjacent box. Repeat this process for the character’s Reputation and update the field for the appropriate faction (X)."

I agree that most GMs do not do it correctly, but the guide makes it pretty clear how it is supposed to go.

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You mean Method 2?

The Exchange * ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent aka Shaudius

Method 1: Player writes current reputation to left of bar. GM or player writes new total to right of bar.

That's player writing W and GM writing X, which is what the guide says to do.

So Method 1 is correct per the guide.

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That's not what the Guide tells us, though.

Enter the number of Fame earned

and then

Repeat this process for the character’s Reputation

So just like you'd write "+2" for Fame, you'd write "+2" for Reputation.

That's what "Repeat" means.

Right?

The Exchange * ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent aka Shaudius

The process being referred to here is clearly the first part "Determine how much Fame the character earned over the course of the scenario. A character can typically earn a maximum of 2 Fame per scenario; 1 Fame for each success condition completed."

To read otherwise to not read the phrase 'update the field' with any meaning, +2 is not an updated field value, it may be a field in and of itself but what you have placed in this box is not an updated field.

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So you're advocating for Method 5.

Gotcha.

Dark Archive *

The willful inability to read and follow instructions is the only issue here.

Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask
them to fll out the sections marked A–F, H, K, and O (Character
Chronicle #, player/character info and slotted faction, Starting XP,
Initial Fame, and Starting Credits). Each player should also list the
factions for which her character earned Reputation during the
adventure (V) and her current Reputation with those factions (W).

Thus, player enters current rep in the left field.

Step 3: Determine how much Fame the character earned
over the course of the scenario. A character can typically earn
a maximum of 2 Fame per scenario; 1 Fame for each success
condition completed. Enter the number of Fame earned in the
shaded Fame Gained feld (L) and initial the adjacent box. Repeat
this process [determining gain] for the character’s Reputation and update the field for the appropriate faction (X).

Bracketed part added by me. It clearly does not refer to the third sentence, as there is no adjacent box to initial, but instead refers to the first sentence.

Thus, GM enters updated total in box X

Therefore, Method 1.

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Okay, so let's assume it's clearly described (which I contest) and that there truly is only one way to fill out a Chronicle.

People aren't doing it.

Since we know this to be true, wouldn't that mean the Chronicle needs to be redesigned so that it's more intuitive?

Because otherwise this topic will keep coming up. It's been almost a year now and this isn't the first thread asking this question.

Dark Archive *

No. It just means people need to pay attention. Your redesign project is full of flaws, and mistaken assumptions, and will do nothing to get the people who can't be bothered to read instructions to follow your instructions.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

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Quote:
The willful inability to read and follow instructions is the only issue here.
Quote:
To read otherwise to not read the phrase 'update the field' with any meaning

So clearly everyone but me is reading it wrong, for various values of me.

Could we drop the recriminations and insults of not being able to read as if being written automatically removed any possibility of unclear areas or contradictions? I mean WHY on earth would anyone twist the meaning of this?

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber
World of Dim Light wrote:
Your redesign project is full of flaws, and mistaken assumptions, and will do nothing to get the people who can't be bothered to read instructions to follow your instructions.

Please, and I mean this in the most sincerest tone, what would you suggest I change? I've only done two drafts, and am working on a third for tomorrow.

*I* believe that this fixes a problem, but I can't read your mind.

I'm trying to engage the community so this becomes a product that everyone can use.

(I'd appreciate your comments in the other thread, though, so that they're all in one location)

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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I work with complex electronic equipment for a living. When you can’t figure out why something isn’t working the way you think it should, 99.99% of the time the answer is in the documentation somewhere (occasionally it’s just broken). That doesn’t mean it’s easy to find or entirely clear to everyone. Even highly skilled technicians may not understand what the writer meant. That’s why the most common issues often have an expanded section with plain-language explanations and examples.

Or, as the section might be called, Frequently Asked Questions.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

World of dim light wrote:
Your redesign project is full of flaws, and mistaken assumptions

Why do people think that the random recriminations of random people on the internet is useful for anything?

I mean one of them has to be specific.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

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World of Dim Light wrote:
No. It just means people need to pay attention. Your redesign project is full of flaws, and mistaken assumptions, and will do nothing to get the people who can't be bothered to read instructions to follow your instructions.

Dude! I read how to do it 3 times and I still got it wrong. I am not stupid and I have been dealing with Organized Play paperwork since the early 2000s. In addition, I am far from the only one to have issues getting this right. Simply telling people to pay more attention is trite and unhelpful.

The Exchange * ⦵⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Agent aka Shaudius

I mean the easiest solution is to make the boxes the same as the fame, xp, and credits sections and just have the gm fill out the center portion and leave starting and ending for the pc but it still relies on the gm filling that part out because otherwise there's no way for the player to know the factions for which they earned rep outside of their slotted one.

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Shaudius wrote:
I mean the easiest solution is to make the boxes the same

Will do ^_^

Dataphiles

i've seen yet another "option" - the GM fills in the amount of Reputation earned to the left of the slash, and initials on the right of the slash

***** ⦵⦵

World of Dim Light wrote:

The willful inability to read and follow instructions is the only issue here.

Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask
them to fll out the sections marked A–F, H, K, and O (Character
Chronicle #, player/character info and slotted faction, Starting XP,
Initial Fame, and Starting Credits). Each player should also list the
factions for which her character earned Reputation during the
adventure (V) and her current Reputation with those factions (W).

Thus, player enters current rep in the left field.

Step 3: Determine how much Fame the character earned
over the course of the scenario. A character can typically earn
a maximum of 2 Fame per scenario; 1 Fame for each success
condition completed. Enter the number of Fame earned in the
shaded Fame Gained feld (L) and initial the adjacent box. Repeat
this process [determining gain] for the character’s Reputation and update the field for the appropriate faction (X).

Bracketed part added by me. It clearly does not refer to the third sentence, as there is no adjacent box to initial, but instead refers to the first sentence.

Thus, GM enters updated total in box X

Therefore, Method 1.

I would say this argues for method 2. Where I come from the GM's only fill amount gained in the fame section. The GM does not fill in the total. If a GM repeats the process he is only filling in amount gained or +2 to the right of the bar.

Furthermore the shaded section is where the GM enters the +2. The fame total section is not shaded.

***** ⦵⦵

Vertasi wrote:
i've seen yet another "option" - the GM fills in the amount of Reputation earned to the left of the slash, and initials on the right of the slash

I'see that also.

I have seen a 7th version. Since no one is sure what goes on what line , some GM's will write in Starting on the left ending on the right and add the +2 above the divider. So all 3 numbers are filled in by the GM.

* ⦵⦵⦵⦵

Starfinder Superscriber

Reputation/Infamy is the only part of the sheet that isn't labeled, doesn't have the GM part in grey, and it doesn't ask for the GM's initials.

Here's my attempt at a solution, a minimal change to the sheet clarify what GMs are suppose to do and add an initials section;

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RKiucYsQr7e5k3v1za1HFHtDj2 2_aBTw

Sczarni ***** ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I fixed your link and reposted it over in the other thread for discussion.

***

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I'm considering creating my own personal rep sheet, ITS style. A sheet of three part brackets that let me track each individual reputation gain by faction and chronicle. Kinda like...

(1)(Dataphiles)(+2)
(2)(Dataphiles)(+2)
(3)(Dataphiles)(+2)
(3)(Exoguardians)(+1)

Followed by a list of each faction and my total reputation.

One of my characters is already difficult to read because of 3 consecutive adventures with rep tracked in a different way each time. If It's going to be a mess I may as well have my own version.

***** Venture-Captain, Georgia—Savannah

Rosc wrote:
I'm considering creating my own personal rep sheet, ITS style. A sheet of three part brackets that let me track each individual reputation gain by faction and chronicle.

If you do, I'd be very interested to see it. Share, please?

***** ⦵⦵⦵

Dot dash talley is pretty handy


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

We can argue forever about how to interpret the instructions in the guide but the extent of discussion and confusion on this issue makes it blindingly obvious that something needs to be done. The form isn't clear unto itself and the words don't make it clear. If they did, this discussion thread wouldn't exist or would only have 1 question, 1 answer, and 10 "yep, that's right" comments.

The best solution is probably to change the chronicle sheet so it makes this clear.

The alternate (or additional) solution is to change/expand the text in the Society Guide so that it clearly shows (with highlighted field numbers) what goes in those fields, as it does for most other fields.

Jim

**** Venture-Agent, Minnesota—St. Louis Park aka BretI

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I put the reputation into my electronic ITS and added a page for the total reputation and tier in each faction.

You can find filled in examples on the profiles of my active Starfinder characters.

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

^ I found Bret’s ITS to be incredibly useful for helping track all those stray fame and reputation points. (Yes, i’m biased... he’s my boyfriend, but I like that I can just put the numbers from each adventure and it keeps a running tally for me.)

Hmm

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