Dirty Trickster Half-Orc Brawler


Advice


My friend challenged me to make a Strength-based Brawler build for an off-shoot campaign that takes place in a Steampunky-magic world. 15-pt buy.

Here's what I'm planning:

Half-Orc Brawler
Str 18 (16 +2)
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 8

Racial Traits:
Swapped Fey Thoughts for Weapon Familiarity. Chose UMD and Stealth.
Swapped Sacred Tattoo (+1 Luck bonus to all saves) for Orc Ferocity.

Traits:
Fate's Favored (+1 Luck Bonus)
Heavy Hitter (+1 dmg rolls with Unarmed attacks)

Amulet of Mighty Fist Enchants
Fortuitious
Cruel

Feats:
lvl1 Dirty Fighting
lvl2 Bonus Combat Feat: Improved Dirty Trick
lvl3 Power Attack, Maneuver Training: DT +1
lvl4
lvl5 Combat Reflexes, Bonus Combat Feat: Vicious Stomp
lvl6
lvl7 Quick Dirty Trick, Maneuver Training: DT +2, Trip +1
lvl8 Bonus Combat Feat: Greater Dirty Trick
lvl9 Pummeling Style
lvl10
lvl11 Pummeling Charge, Bonus Combat Feat: Dirty Trick Master, Maneuver Training: DT +3, Trip +2, Overrun +1
lvl12
lvl13 Feat
lvl14 Bonus Combat Feat:
lvl15 Feat, Maneuver Training: DT +4, Trip +3, Overrun +2, Disarm +1
lvl16
lvl17 Feat, Bonus Combat Feat:
lvl18
lvl19 Feat, Maneuver Training: DT +5, Trip +4, Overrun +3, Disarm +2, Bull Rush +1
lvl20 Bonus Combat Feat:

I know my Mental stats are in the dumpster and this is on purpose (I'm the dimwitted older half-brother of a human, a Vanguard with a Samurai Automaton played my friend who challenged me to make this character, who does all my thinking and runs my finances for me - he's the brains, I'm the muscle, and I'm sort of an idiot-savant when it comes to playing with magic items like Wands), and I have a plan to roleplay this properly. I want to use UMD for buffing myself and helping others in need with Wands.

I plan on using Martial Flexibility to pick up whatever feats I need for a specific fight, like ImpOverrun/ChargeThrough to get to a BBEG, Imp/Greater <insert Combat Maneuver>, or Cornugon Smash/Intimidating Prowess if I want to Intimidate for the Shaken/Sicken Combo. I'm planning on using a Cruel enchanted Amulet of Mighty Fists for the Shaken/Sicken combo and for a stream of 5 Temp HP when I knock things unconscious.

I feel like something is missing though and I can't put my finger on it.


Kitsune style works with dirty tricks if you're interested.

With 7 Int, base 4 skill points/level and a solid reason to take hit points with the favored class bonus (light armoured front line type), I don't think you're going to be able to take UMD, stealth and intimidate.

Dirty tricks debuff but don't disable that well. If it's just the 2 PCs I'd reconsider the focus.


avr wrote:

Kitsune style works with dirty tricks if you're interested.

With 7 Int, base 4 skill points/level and a solid reason to take hit points with the favored class bonus (light armoured front line type), I don't think you're going to be able to take UMD, stealth and intimidate.

Dirty tricks debuff but don't disable that well. If it's just the 2 PCs I'd reconsider the focus.

We'll have a group of five, so myself and my friend and 3 others, plus our GM. I saw Kitsune style and figured that was mostly situational, and I can plug those in with Martial Flexibility (hereafter MF) if I need them for a specific fight. Like if I think I'm going to charge someone and need a DT during one of the attacks, I can use Kitsune Style to do it, or apply two DT's with Kitsune Tricks. I'm trying to make this guy a debuff monster that causes a lot of survivability for myself and our group. I'll use MF quite often to get Cornugon Smash/Intimidating Prowess for the Shaken/Sicken combo with all my power attacks for the -4 attack, saves, skills, ability checks, and -2 dmg so that I don't have to sacrifice Blind/Entangle DT's to shaken or sicken.

My friend is making his Vanguard and Automaton into a tripping monstrosity with teamwork feats, so that's why I'm shying away from getting Trip feats and instead making those situational feats if I need them, while still capitalizing on his Trips with Combat Reflexes, the Fortuitous Enchantment and Vicious Stomp.

I actually do plan on using the Half-Orc FCB 1/4 lvl progression towards Unarmed Strike damage and getting Monk's Robes. By lvl 9, I'll have the Unarmed Strike progression of a lvl 16 Brawler, so 2d8 per strike. I also plan on getting a Wand of Enlarge early to take it one damage step higher.

I think once I have DT Master at lvl 11, my DT's will be quite disabling. I can make DT Sickened into DT Nauseated. First round I can Blind, second round Sicken, third round Nauseate, if they're still standing. It will take them a standard action to clear the debuffs, so I'll be trading 1 attack per round for their standard action to clear it. If I get boots of haste, I can still get a full attack action while doing a DT attempt every round.

Edit: I'm not going to Max out UMD. This is going to be an out of combat thing, so I'll essentially have unlimited rolls to make it happen. I'm going to keep Intimidate maxed, and go half 'n half on Perception and Stealth. I'll throw a point around every other level or so at random skills like Acrobatics or Escape Artist, just to keep them mostly respectable.


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Quote:

Int 7

Wis 7
Cha 8

That just about sums up why I'm not the world's biggest fan of low pointbuys . . .


Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
Quote:

Int 7

Wis 7
Cha 8
That just about sums up why I'm not the world's biggest fan of low pointbuys . . .

Me either. I prefer 25+pt buys. Regardless of the MAD class you choose, you can still end up with at least 10's in your dump stats while still keeping your primary stats respectable.


@avr I've been reconsidering the Kitsune Build, because Kitsune Tricks and Kitsune Vengeance are almost too good to pass up. What do you think about this:

lvl1 Dirty Fighting
lvl2 Bonus Combat Feat: Improved Dirty Trick
lvl3 Kitsune Style, Maneuver Training: DT +1
lvl4
lvl5 Combat Reflexes, Bonus Combat Feat: Kitsune Tricks
lvl6
lvl7 Quick Dirty Trick, Maneuver Training: DT +2, Trip +1
lvl8 Bonus Combat Feat: Greater Dirty Trick
lvl9 Kitsune Vengeance
lvl10
lvl11 Power Attack, Bonus Combat Feat: Dirty Trick Master, Maneuver Training: DT +3, Trip +2, Overrun +1
lvl12
lvl13 Feat
lvl14 Bonus Combat Feat:
lvl15 Feat, Maneuver Training: DT +4, Trip +3, Overrun +2, Disarm +1
lvl16
lvl17 Feat, Bonus Combat Feat:
lvl18
lvl19 Feat, Maneuver Training: DT +5, Trip +4, Overrun +3, Disarm +2, Bull Rush +1
lvl20 Bonus Combat Feat:

Instead of Pummeling Style/Charge, I could use those as situational MF feats, and then take Power Attack for additional damage at lvl 11+?

I could still MF Vicious Stomp if I think I'd use it.


If you're using kitsune style on the charge then pummelling charge becomes less important, sure. You can't do both at once after all. Having one of those two accessible permanently is probably better than trying to squeeze in MF before a charge. Pounding your enemies with power attack once they're blinded seems like a decent idea at least some of the time.

Kitsune tricks/vengeance are indeed good. I was discussing a ninja dirty trick build with someone else recently and I think he was in some distress at how late he was going to have to fit those in (levels 11-12).

One non-feat thing I remember from that earlier discussion was a serpentine tattoo - that's a magic item you may want to pick up at some point.

Dark Archive

You might want to look at Cloak and Dagger style, as well. It's definitely a later game acquisition (unless you can bypass some of the prereqs via something like a MoMS dip), but it synergizes quite well with Kitsune Style.


Nirdish wrote:
You might want to look at Cloak and Dagger style, as well. It's definitely a later game acquisition (unless you can bypass some of the prereqs via something like a MoMS dip), but it synergizes quite well with Kitsune Style.

Good call on CnD style. I'm not allowed to dip in this, no multi-classing :(

avr wrote:

If you're using kitsune style on the charge then pummelling charge becomes less important, sure. You can't do both at once after all. Having one of those two accessible permanently is probably better than trying to squeeze in MF before a charge. Pounding your enemies with power attack once they're blinded seems like a decent idea at least some of the time.

Kitsune tricks/vengeance are indeed good. I was discussing a ninja dirty trick build with someone else recently and I think he was in some distress at how late he was going to have to fit those in (levels 11-12).

One non-feat thing I remember from that earlier discussion was a serpentine tattoo - that's a magic item you may want to pick up at some point.

Once I have Quick Dirty Trick and Pummeling Charge, I could do a DT in place of one of my Flurry attacks instead though right?

Serpentine Tattoo is pretty stellar, I like it :) I was planning on getting Boots of Haste, Monk's Robes, Belt of Thunderous Charging (+2 Str and +2 BR/OR, deal damage as 1 size larger when charging), Brawling Armor, Pauldrons of the Bull (roll BR twice and take the higher result, always), Cruel/Fortuitous AoMF, and Giant Fist Gauntlet (for 20 rounds per day, free BR with EVERY UNARMED STRIKE).

I'm planning on using items to proc all my Bull Rushes, or use flanking and Dirty Fighting. I want to be extra pushy-shovy.

What other items do you think I should get?


If you're not using automatic bonus progression or combined items, be careful about getting something which takes up your shoulder item slot. A cloak of resistance is arguably the best of the big 6.

Unless you have a level in master of many styles monk (and you're not dipping, I hear) you probably can't use kitsune style and pummelling style at the same time. Or C&D and kitsune. Yeah, there's some guy on these boards who rants about being in a style being meaningless due to the exact wording of style feats, I do not suggest giving him credence.

Dirty trick and trip and bull rush now? That's a lot of combat maneuvers to be trying to focus on at once. And while flanking bull rush isn't likely to work well.

Other magic items - it's worth thinking about what you'll have before the 20K giant fist gauntlets. Like gauntlets of the skilled maneuver perhaps. Sandals of quick reaction will make it easier to use MF when ambushed.

If you can scrape up skill focus (stealth) at some point then MF can get you owl style/dive/swoop, thus allowing your very limited skill points to go a little further.


I've been reconsidering this build and I think I absolutely have to have Power Attack because it's a prerequisite for so many other feats like BR/OR that I'd like to plug in with MF when I need them. I think I can do Kitsune Style situationally.

lvl1 Dirty Fighting
lvl2 Bonus Combat Feat: Power Attack
lvl3 Improved Dirty Trick, Maneuver Training: DT +1
lvl4
lvl5 Combat Reflexes, Bonus Combat Feat: Vicious Stomp (change to Pummeling Style at lvl 8)
lvl6
lvl7 Quick Dirty Trick, Maneuver Training: DT +2, BR +1
lvl8 Bonus Combat Feat: Pummeling Charge (change Vicious Stomp to Pummeling Style)
lvl9 Greater Dirty Trick
lvl10
lvl11 Vicious Stomp, Bonus Combat Feat: Dirty Trick Master, Maneuver Training: DT +3, BR +2, Overrun +1
lvl12
lvl13 Feat
lvl14 Bonus Combat Feat:
lvl15 Feat, Maneuver Training: DT +4, BR +3, Overrun +2, Disarm +1
lvl16
lvl17 Feat, Bonus Combat Feat:
lvl18
lvl19 Feat, Maneuver Training: DT +5, BR +4, Overrun +3, Disarm +2, Trip +1
lvl20 Bonus Combat Feat:

I still need to figure out my late game feats 13+. I'm thinking of getting Greater Eldritch Heritage by 19 so I can have a +6 Inherent Str, +6 Size bonus to Str, and my +6 enhancement to Str from items, as well as +4 Str and +1 Wis from level progression, and end up at lvl20 with a 40 Str.

Although my Cha is 8, I can boost this with items and inherent bonuses from Wish by lvl 19.

I dunno, what do you think?

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