Does Teleport Spell create sound when teleported?

[Hunch]

Aside from the verbal component aspect of the Teleport Spell, is there any sound created either when the teleported creatures leave or arrive? Seems like their might be like a "whoosh" sound created, but interested in others opinions.

My players are lvl 13 now and started using it more often in and out of combat. How do other GM's handle this?

Thanks!

[Vicon]

You're displacing a lot of matter and air. In addition to any kind of "magic" noise it made (which is GM discretion) I'm sure you'd be able to hear the targets arrive/land/whoosh whatever.

[Hunch]

Vicon wrote:

You're displacing a lot of matter and air. In addition to any kind of "magic" noise it made (which is GM discretion) I'm sure you'd be able to hear the targets arrive/land/whoosh whatever.

That's my thought as well. Do you think it would be enough that it would prevent them using it as a "surprise" tactic when teleporting into combat?

[blahpers]

Being loud doesn't preclude surprise. You can kick down a door and get a surprise round if you're prepared and they weren't expecting you.

[Dave Justus]

From a rules point of view, the answer is that it doesn't say it has any sort of sound effect at the destination so it doesn't.

Obviously one can 'houserule' it if one wishes.

Outside of the rules, displacing air is really no more logical than not. Unless you materialize slowly (relatively), from the inside out, you wouldn't 'displace' air you would instead be super positioned with it. It is possible a magical force proceed the teleport, creating an area of vacuum but more likely to me the particles at the source and destination of the teleport switch places, so the place you left is filled with the air from where you are going.

[Kristal Moonhand]

Back in 3.5, there was a feat that allowed you to act in the surprise round caused by a creature teleporting in and attacking immediately. It's called Teleport Sense. So I'd say it definitely allows a surprise round. But then again, you can just start giving some of your NPCs that feat...

[tchrman35]

I think 'bamf' is the standard :)

[Azothath]

*astria mentos zen-toast*
umm... look behind you!

Teleport by RAW doesn't state there is an typical sound but Fool's Teleport implies there's something typical that can be mimicked.
There are the generic "spellcasting manifestations".
It is possible to surprise others at the destination point as you "instantly" appear.

[Pizza Lord]

Dave Justus wrote:

From a rules point of view, the answer is that it doesn't say it has any sort of sound effect at the destination so it doesn't.

Obviously one can 'houserule' it if one wishes.

I am inclined to agree with Dave Justus and the others. There is no 'official' sound, but there is definitely a chance to react to them coming in. It depends on how far the listener/viewer might be (if the teleporter comes into the area hidden or behind a pillar or somesuch). You can certainly surprise someone by appearing next to them, but sometimes even if you catch someone by surprise they just move or react too fast (a lucky initiative roll) to take advantage of it. Appearing on a soft carpet and behind a changing screen might be enough for a GM to say you aren't noticed, but in most cases it shouldn't just be silent (but that doesn't mean there's a *pop* or a Star Trek transporter sound), though I do tend to go with the vacuum sound if someone's close enough (by that, I mean the quick rush of air into the vacated space, not... like the sound a Hoover or Black & Decker makes).

Dave Justus wrote:

... more likely to me the particles at the source and destination of the teleport switch places, so the place you left is filled with the air from where you are going.

This could work, but if that were the case, we'd also expect that teleporting into water (for whatever reason) would leave behind a caster-shaped liquid doppleganger that immediately plopped into a puddle at your starting point. I don't think that's ever been implied or done though. :)

[Azothath]

as a physics guy I like that the rules of magic should follow simple newtonian physics(it's not exact but easy to figure out) or a kind of minimal energy to accomplish method. Alas, magic seems to be mostly about loopholes and getting around physics.

In a Teleport from A to B(AB), exchanging matter from BA actually takes double the Work as just moving the caster along AB, so don't do that.
As the caster instantly appears at B you can displace the air. A person doing so should make a sharp *crack*. If it's within 6 seconds (a quantized round) then any sound won't be audible as it's a slow displacement.

[Quantum Steve]

From a rules point of view, teleport has observable manifestations that can be noticed with a perception check.

Assigning a DC to that check can be tricky. Any DC you assign is a 'houserule', so just go with the DC and reasoning that makes the most sense to you.

[Undead Catgirl]

Azothath wrote:

as a physics guy I like that the rules of magic should follow simple newtonian physics

*claws at her coffin*

[Azothath]

Undead Catgirl wrote:

Azothath wrote:

as a physics guy I like that the rules of magic should follow simple newtonian physics

*claws at her coffin*

coffin with internet, nice...

[Hunch]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the feedback. It's interesting to see others perspective on this.

I like the idea that Quantum Steve proposed, which is how I've been handling it. For instance, one time they telelported right in the middle of a massive battle that was already taking place by two warring sides. In that case I made the DC very high, and only rolled for a few NPC' that were nearby, and they got the surprise round that time. On an earlier attempt to teleport into an Intellect Devourer's chamber I made the DC lower, as the ID was already aware of them from a previous encounter that they retreated via a teleport spell, so he was well aware they might pop back in at any time.

[VoodistMonk]

I would definitely say that teleporting does not have associated noise, as per design of this game.

It takes three feats to get Teleport Tactician, to be capable of AoO someone who teleported next to you.

Clearly it is difficult to detect or react fast enough to do anything against the person who teleported in if it takes a feat with Spellbreaker as a prerequisite... Spellbreaker requires 10 levels of Fighter to pick up unless it's gifted by your archetype.

The average person or creature doesn't stand a chance to react without a super lucky initiative roll.

[Kayerloth]

Maybe the Foe is not quite at a total loss ...

Casting Teleport (or Greater Teleport) is a Standard Action and so are most Attack Actions so you're there but probably unable to attack (till your next turn). You 'pop in' near to Foe the Fearsome. Perception is typically a reactive skill made in response to observable stimulus and I'd say your sudden appearance, other factors not with-standing, is observable if perhaps circumstantially modifiable. Whether in a particular campaign the GM decides you make a noise when Teleporting might be one of those modifiers. RAW does not indicate you do so.

Note that Dimension Door specifically states you can take no other action(s) until your next turn. No such language exists in Teleport text.

From there it gets complicated and based on the individual circumstances surrounding the encounter. Were you invisible prior to arrival, are you a new combatant entering a preexisting combat, did you merely move across the area 'suddenly' but the foes were generally aware of you previously? Does Teleporting cause a noise in and of itself? And probably all those and more help answer what sort of Perception check your Foe(s) get to become aware of your present location and then react based on their turn in the initiative order. And please do not include "but I teleported behind them" as a reason for them not getting a Perception check. PF and the last several incarnations of the game do not have 'facing' as a thing.

And did you Move then Teleport or Teleport (and now have a Move action left)? What if you brought friends, do they all get a full turn i.e. is a 5ft step Full Attack an option for the melee guy? (I'm not even sure what the current rules of the game say about that, if anything).

[VoodistMonk]

Dimensional Agility/Assault/Dervish feats allow you to cast dimension door as a swift action and take all remaining actions afterwards. So teleporting in and attacking is very much available in the game.

[LordKailas]

When I've played, it was never even suggested that teleporting had a unique sound cue since there isn't one described in the spell. This often has meant when the bad guy in front of you suddenly vanishes you have no idea if they teleported, dimension doored or just turned invisible especially if they don't seem to suddenly "appear" anywhere else immediately after vanishing. So anyone who wanted to know what just happened would then have to make a spellcraft check or be able to see invisible things.

Heck, the spell "mislead" is predicated on the fact that a person can't immediately tell if someone teleported or turned invisible.

While I'm all for physics, there are explanations as to why it wouldn't make a sound. What if teleporting is actually two way and it simply takes a volume of air from the destination and swaps it with the teleporter(s), with the two volumes being equal. So there's no sudden in-rush of air and so there's no "pop". of course, the easiest explanation is "it's magic".

[blahpers]

Remind me to teleport to the Elemental Plane of Magma the next time I'm stuck in melee so I can drop a humanoid-size pile of hot death next to my opponent.

[LordKailas]

blahpers wrote:

Remind me to teleport to the Elemental Plane of Magma the next time I'm stuck in melee so I can drop a humanoid-size pile of hot death next to my opponent.

I'm pretty sure you can't teleport to another plane nor does it allow you to teleport into a solid object.

Otherwise it sounds like fun :)

[VoodistMonk]

The two way teleport, leaving a air/water/lava doppelganger is a fun visual. I've never thought it would swap like that, but it's funny to think about.

I've always been under the impression that dimensional dervish was designed to be really sneaky, so I've never associated noise with teleporting in this game.

[blahpers]

LordKailas wrote:

blahpers wrote:

Remind me to teleport to the Elemental Plane of Magma the next time I'm stuck in melee so I can drop a humanoid-size pile of hot death next to my opponent.

I'm pretty sure you can't teleport to another plane nor does it allow you to teleport into a solid object.

Otherwise it sounds like fun :)

Fair enough about the plane bit, but magma is fluid, not solid. : D

[Pizza Lord]

Magma areas do exist on the Prime Material, so it could be done. Also true for having a vat of acid back home to teleport into (assuming it worked this way, which I don't, but for funsies...). In most cases that would be way worse for the caster though, since then you'd be fully immersed and take way more damage than anyone near your lava/acid cutout would. That amount of damage almost assures you'd need full immunity.

Now, a room back home that you kept filled with deadly gas might be effective, as a man-sized volume should be enough to gas anyone near your starting point and getting gas immunity (or holding your breath since you know you'll be entering it on your end) is much more doable.

[Mallecks]

It is possible that the magic of the teleport spell handles these issues? It is magic after all. Magic fills the void based on the surrounding material?

If this is REALLY relevant, it may be in your best interests to discuss it with the GM beforehand. Anything outside the spell text is flavor. I can see people saying there are zero signs at the destination location or people saying there are lights/sounds/smells?/etc.

I think it is usually best to not concern yourself too much with physical implications of the rules.

Do incorporeal creatures cast shadows? Do ghost touch weapons/armors cast shadows? What if a PC holds it? What if a ghost holds it? What if they are struggling over the weapon?

These were relevant discussions for a character I wanted to play a long time ago. I wouldn't expect it to play the same at every table.

[Kayerloth]

There are also many methods Conjuration (Teleportation) and Plane Shift is one of them. And that would allow you to 'teleport to another plane' Personally I would hesitate to allow anyone to teleport deliberately (mishaps are another thing) into anything liquid or solid in composition even if it wasn't harmful (i.e. water) as I consider the teleporter to displace the volume they occupy rather than swap it around and more than minimal resistance would cause the spell to fail. But the rules do not specify what exactly happens leaving that open to GM decision. We do know that teleportation happens instantaneously across the astral plane however.

VoodistMonk wrote:

Dimensional Agility/Assault/Dervish feats allow you to cast dimension door as a swift action and take all remaining actions afterwards. So teleporting in and attacking is very much available in the game.

Doesn't surprise me that there are ways to do so ... my thoughts were more about whether particular feats or abilities were needed in order to do so. Certainly in the past in RPGA/Living City play I had a character who did exactly that often enough, teleporting a melee oriented character right into the midst of foes or on top of the BBEG said melee then promptly curb stomping said foes (or at least attempting to do so, :D) He had no special ability beyond the Travel domain spell Teleport (and Dimension Door). Likewise a wizard or other spell caster might use a Quickened spell after arrival. Edit: Or use a Quickened Teleport to arrive there in the first place.

[wraithstrike]

Teleport(not greater teleport) has a chance of them not landing exactly where they want so nobody has tried to use it as a way to drop in and attack.

Additionally there are spells that are made to counter scry and fry.

With that being said I tend to let them use it for the most part, but some bad guys would be ready for it. Noticing the scrying sensor is not hard when they get to level 13.

Also if the bad guy saves on the scry saving throw he gets a hostile tingle by the rules, and he knows it was hostile. They can't try again for 24 hours so that gives him 24 hours to try to figure things out. If nobody is in the room with him it makes sense to for him to know it was scry.

You may ask how he will know?

By the rules a DC 25+ spell level knowledge arcana check can allow him to figure it out. If the caster is a wizard the DC comes out to 29. That is not really hard for a level 13 NPC to make.

In addition the scrying sensor has a perception DC of 20+spell level if he fails the save. If it's the normal spell that is a 24, which is also easy to notice at level 13. That matters because it also allows for a knowledge arcana check of a 24, which is easier than the 29. That can kill any arguments for a surprise round from the players.

[Kayerloth]

Typically I actually used Dimension Door but even Teleport Viewed Once isn't a horrifyingly awful chance to screw you up at short distances that I would use in combat vs the BBEG. Scry and Fry was and is relatively uncommon among our group just for the reasons Wraithstrike mentions. My Loremaster commonly used Detect Scrying a 24hr duration 4th level spell. It also gives the scried upon the chance to view and know the direction and distance to the scrier in addition to locating any scrying sensors in range.