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I am sure I am not the ONLY one who has considered altering the current Starfinder Setting by keeping Golarion. My question is how have people handled this or how would you handle this? How would history have unfolded?
A few things I think would happen are
-The Empire of Cheliax is either completely gone or has shrunk into a nation, instead of being an empire.
-When Numeria finally gets a hold of Firearms, their head start on Technology allows THEM to become the next Empire and dominate force in the Inner Sea.
-The technological head start the Inner Sea Region gets on technology, when compared to the rest of the world, allows them to engage in Global Imperialism. Like what the European powers did to the rest of the world on Earth.
Has anyone else thought about or already added Golarion back into the setting? What would/have you done?
I think the presence of actual magic kind of disrupts the whole Guns/Germs /Steal advantage colonial powers had. I mean, it's still an advantage because it's presumably cheaper and easier to use than magic is, but it's not as much of an advantage as one would have conquering nations without magic. In the early stages of a techno revolution, magic is a lot more powerful, so an advanced magic culture may actually conquer the techno culture before they get rolling. What you might see is several competing powers start an advancement arms race, with some more focused on magic and others more focused on technology and eventually the largest ones achieving something like the equilibrium we see in SF but without the integration of Tech/Magic that is Technomancy.
-The technological head start the Inner Sea Region gets on technology, when compared to the rest of the world, allows them to engage in Global Imperialism. Like what the European powers did to the rest of the world on Earth.
Don't the Dwarves in the Mana Wastes already have firearms and some steampunk-level technology? I suppose Garund is still the Inner Sea, but it would be interesting to see how more competition between the two neighboring landmasses might work out.
While the existence of magic does mitigate some of the advantage of technology. There are a few reasons it is NOT a 1 to 1 comparison.
1) You can make a gun and just give it to a soldier. If the soldier dies you can just give the gun to another soldier. At worst the soldier needs some training (exotic weapon proficiency feat) while replacing somebody who can use magic takes a lot longer to train. Just look at the age categories for the spell casting classes.
2) While you could make the argument that Pathfinder is a High Magic Setting, it is not Eberron. The streets are not lined with Ever burning torches, militaries do not employ mass forces of magic wielding soldiers, we do not see mass public work projects make out of magic.
3) Numeria specifically has both Magic AND Technology, which is why I see them becoming the next big power.
Don't the Dwarves in the Mana Wastes already have firearms and some steampunk-level technology? I suppose Garund is still the Inner Sea, but it would be interesting to see how more competition between the two neighboring landmasses might work out.
-The technological head start the Inner Sea Region gets on technology, when compared to the rest of the world, allows them to engage in Global Imperialism. Like what the European powers did to the rest of the world on Earth.
True, but while The Mana Wastes has technology, they lack magic. Numeria on the other hand has both Magic and Technology, AND an organization (Technic League) dedicated to both of those.
I am not suggesting that Numeria would take over the entire Inner Sea Region. I am thinking that they would probably be the source of an "Industrial Revolution" which would give the entire Inner Sea Region a head start compared to the rest of the world.
The Mana Wastes IS a good contender for starting the Industrial Revolution instead of Numeria though.
Perhaps you have just described the beginning of the chain of events that led to the annihilation of Golarion...
The potential consequences of Numeria are just one thing to consider though. Such as, but by no means limited to
What happens to the revolution and Political ideas started in Andoran?
Does a new empire arise to replace Lung Wa? If so how long does it last?
Does Golarion remain divided, or does some form of Unified Government Council form eventually?
Do the Orcs ever get their act together, or do they remain primitive by the standards of the world?
What might have happened?!
From what I've been able to gather from Starfinder source material, the Gap lasted about 3,000 years, which would make the current Golarion date about 7718. Cultural and technological advancement on Golarion are not all that comparable to Earth's. Consider that in the span of nearly 5,000 years, since the start of the Age of Enthronement, culture and technology have maintained a level roughly comparable to that of the early Middle Ages to the Renaissance, a period of about 1,000 years.
Imagine we use this 5:1 historical ratio as a basis of comparison to explore the comparable time period on Earth from the Age of Exploration (circa 1400) to the Modern Age (2018), a period of about 600 years. Applying the progress ratio, we actually end up with Golarion needing those entire 3,000 years to reach the level of advancement that we have on Earth today.
Of course, this contradicts the assumptions presented in the Starfinder setting, so it needs adjustment, but it does establish the plausible premise that the course of development on Golarion would follow a trajectory of cultural and technological development significantly different from Earth's.
Here's a quick introductory sketch that I brainstormed a couple of months ago for a setting in which Golarion did not disappear and the Gap didn't happen -- along with a few other changes to the canon Pact World information. I haven't pursued this idea since then, but I am still undecided about keeping the Gap or altering it in some significant fashion.
In the Golarion Lives Campaign Setting, there is no Gap and the planet Golarion has not disappeared. The sun is not inhabited, nor are Bretheda, Liavara, Aucturn or Apostae. Aballon is inhabited, but not by a race of artificial life forms. Rather, Aballon is sparsely populated by workers and contractors employed by the Aspis Consortium's interplanetary mining division. Castrovel is controlled and ruled by the elves, with lashunta and formians occupying the lower rungs of the Castrovellian social hierarchy. Golarion is controlled and ruled predominantly by humans. Elves have largely abandoned it, as have the dwarves, who undertook the Second Quest for Sky several centuries ago. Absalom Station is the crown jewel of the Golarion Space Agency's network of orbital stations, uniquely powered by the sacred Starstone. Akiton is a warzone, continually fought over by Golaronian colonists and the native Akitonians. Verces has become a pleasure planet for the system's most powerful and wealthy, and the Idari never arrived at its destination. The Diaspora is inhabited only by smugglers, pirates and a few hardscrabble mining operations, along with a network of Golarion Space Agency outposts and military bases. Eox remains a barren rock inhabited by the undead and ruled by the risen lich-god, Tar Baphon. Hunted nearly to extinction on Golarion, dragons fled the planet and, through magical terraforming, created their own homeworld on Triaxus.
Because I often publish my homebrew settings, and that I always homebrew, because world building is one of my favorite activities as a GM, I cannot use the Pact Worlds, nor the Gap in my games - 3PP aren't allowed to use the default setting nor anything about it.
The sun is not inhabited, nor are Bretheda, Liavara, Aucturn or Apostae.
So the populations that were there during the PF era have mysteriously disappeared?
Aballon is inhabited, but not by a race of artificial life forms. Rather, Aballon is sparsely populated by workers and contractors employed by the Aspis Consortium's interplanetary mining division.
Aspis wiped out the natives when they took over?
Castrovel is controlled and ruled by the elves, with lashunta and formians occupying the lower rungs of the Castrovellian social hierarchy.
I suppose the discovery of space travel would make it a lot easier to bypass the storms that keep Sovyrian isolated from the rest of Castrovel.
The sun is not inhabited, nor are Bretheda, Liavara, Aucturn or Apostae.So the populations that were there during the PF era have mysteriously disappeared?
Like a few others here, I am interested in finding ways to tone down some of the fantasy emphasis in this science-fantasy setting, without necessarily abandoning it or revising it all together. My approach has been to alter some of the basic assumptions of the setting. For my campaign, the sun and those planets were never inhabited so nothing has disappeared.
Aballon is inhabited, but not by a race of artificial life forms. Rather, Aballon is sparsely populated by workers and contractors employed by the Aspis Consortium's interplanetary mining division.Aspis wiped out the natives when they took over?
Like the other planets mentioned, Aballon was never inhabited prior to settlement by humans from Golarion. It was merely another of many lifeless, mineral-rich worlds scattered throughout the galaxy.
I suppose the discovery of space travel would make it a lot easier to bypass the storms that keep Sovyrian isolated from the rest of Castrovel.Castrovel is controlled and ruled by the elves, with lashunta and formians occupying the lower rungs of the Castrovellian social hierarchy.
Yes, that and other techno-magical advances that the elves created upon their return to Castrovel en masse from Golarion. This change I'm not entirely certain about and might just as easily change the more I play around with Castrovel. As I said before, all of it was mainly just some brainstorming that I was doing.
Before our local game group decided to try Starfinder, I had started GMing the Mummys Mask adventure path set in a custom variant of Golarion that I created called "Golarion by Gaslight". I advanced Golarion's historical timeline to the year 5017, equating it roughly with 1890's Earth.
I introduced some fundamental shifts in the nature of the world that resulted from the miraculous closure of the Worldwound. The biggest shift was explaining a gradual reduction in available magical energy and the implications this had for the variety of magical beasts and other inherently magical creatures on the planet. Here's the timeline that I developed to guide and frame my revision of the adventure path, which I was originally going to transform into a kind of Stargate SG-1 "prequel" to starting a Starfinder game.
4708 -- Cheliax attempts to open a sea trade route via the Obari Ocean with Kelesh and Vudra. Dispute over taxation by Qadira leads to war.
4715 -- Ravientti Thrune and Nalifarih Katheeri complete the ritual that seals the Worldwound and, unintentionally restricts the flow of arcane energy throughout the world.
4716 -- War ends between Cheliax and Qadira over respect for sacrifice of Ravientti Thrune and Nalifarih Katheeri in closing the Worldwound.
4720 -- A significant decline in the functioning of arcane magic becomes more generally noted. Nations are thrown into panic as the balance of power begins to shift.
4721 -- First Nethysian Council is held at the Arcanimirium in Absalom to address the world’s growing magical crisis. Andoran signs treaty with Qadira allowing increased shipping through Obari Ocean; opposed by Katapesh, Taldor, and Cheliax.
4730 -- Rebellion in the Chelish city of Kintargo spreads to engulf entire region of Ravounel.
4732 -- Ravounel declares its independence from Cheliax, sparking civil war throughout the country.
4733 -- Grand Prince Stavian III, Emperor of Taldor, dies. Succession is disputed as Princess Eutropia’s claim to the throne is opposed by various factions.
4735 -- Bloody interregnum ends with Princess Eutropia successfully ascending the throne to become Grand Princess Eutropia I, Empress of Taldor.
4743 -- The House of Thrune is toppled from the throne of Cheliax and the country seeks to establish a democracy similar to that of Andoran.
4750 -- Attempts at democracy in Cheliax fail and power is seized by the former Hellknight general, Arcurus Gioventi.
4751 -- The Aspis Consortium moves its headquarters from Westcrown to Oppara with the support of Empress Eutropia I, seeking greater political stability for its activities. The move is unpopular with Taldan nobles and merchants alike.
4756 -- The Aspis Consortium receives an imperial charter from Empress Eutropia I allowing it to operate with the legal mandate of the Taldan government.
4772 -- Conspiracy of nobles in southern Taldor allows Qadira to press territorial claims across the border between the two nations.
4773 -- Taldor declares war on Qadira, emboldened by wealth and influence of the Aspis Consortium.
4821 -- Scholars of the College of Mysteries in Absalom first publish information about the theory of the Global Arcane Field or GAF.
4822 -- Second Nethysian Council is held in Absalom to discuss implications of the Global Arcane Field theory.
4823 -- A magical arms race ensues when information from the Second Nethysian Council becomes known to the leaders of the world’s most powerful nations. Many nations ban the Pathfinder Society from operating within their borders and shut down numerous Pathfinder Lodges.
4830 -- The gnomish exodus is said to have begun. Gnomes begin leaving Golarion in large numbers returning to the First World as the doors between worlds slowly seal shut.
4852 -- Absalomian scientist invents first electric capacitor.
4900 -- The Elven Court at Kyonin once again departs Golarion using the last of the magic available to power the Sovyrian Stone.
4902 -- Inventors of Rahadoum invent the steam engine and keep knowledge of it a jealously guarded secret.
4904 -- Inventors in Cheliax and Andoran also create steam powered engines, launching a scientific race and rapid development of industrialization.
4907 -- Qadiran artificers blend steam technology with elemental magic, but with limited commercial success.
4911 -- Rahadoum inventors create the first steamboat. Alkenstar engineers upgrade Gunworks with steam technology, and develop system of interchangeable parts.
4912 -- Ustalavi inventor creates electric telegraph.
4920 -- First major railroad connects Andoran capital of Almas with major city of Augustana, launching a railroad boom across southern and central Avistan.
4975 -- Andoran gunsmiths create the first cartridge revolver.
5017 -- Current year.
In the simple sense, everything gets super complicated. As it stands, Starfinder is kinda taking the trope of 'single planet with more or less single philosophy, or maybe a couple semi-conflict ones'.
Golarion represents the same problem you see sci-fi turn Earth into some "united Earth government" for its use rather than the 195-ish nations it is today, and who knows how splintered it would get later. You'd basically have to take, ok take every pathfinder setting nation and then go, "Whats it like for spaaaaaaaaaaaaace?"
gamewise I can see why they did it, otherwise you just get "pathfinder adventurers continued, on Golarion, but with lasers and stuff." the only other way to get the same sort of narrative push away from Golarion planet adventures would be to have it post WW3 nuclear fallout land, but even then you'd have groups that'd just stay on Golarion. Which would be fine, but not really 'Starfinder'.
I would argue that disappearing Golarion wasn't so much a "thematic assumption" so much as it was Paizo realizing that including Golarion would be a nightmare from a publishing stand point; the majority of nations on Golarion had at least as much, mostly more written up about them as the other planets in the system.
Officially including Golarion means that Golarion would dominate Starfinder Publication which is something they very clearly didn't want. They wanted the focus to be interplanetary.
Getting rid of Golarion allows them to focus on & develop the other planets in the system & the galaxy, and having it disappear & be Starfinder's "What killed Aroden", a mystery that they have no intention of ever answering, allows them to do that without blowing it up.
Which, either blowing up Golarion or keeping it & establishing a hard canon of how the nations develop past the industrial & digital revolutions & into the information & space ages, would alienate Pathfinder fans by establishing a hard canon & make them feel how their adventures in Pathfinder are ultimately pointless.
I don't think having Golarion there would ruin what makes Starfinder special which is this side by side approach to science fantasy where it isn't (strictly) fantasy magic being approached scientifically to create sci fi ends, nor is it (strictly) sci fi technology being used to emulate fantasy magic, but the two of them existing side by side, complimenting each other but not excluding it. Which you then combine with the high adventure of a Flash Gordan or Star Wars, the comedy of a Guardians of the Galaxy(and the cosmic side of Marvel & DC in general), the socio-political exploration of a Shadowrun, and the mind-shredding horror of an Event Horizon. Mix thoroughly, let simmer.
Narratively I could actually see keeping Golarion around being an improvement in one aspect; it would give the Pact Worlds a more personal connection to the Azlanti Star Empire with it's progenitor planet actually still being there. As it stands it's more of a, "Yeah your granddad used to be one of our neighbors, I think" situation.
In my head cannon the various alien races including Greys and space elves, were guiding Golarion toward being more like spacefinder. Possibly time travelers stopped the destruction of the planet.
First, a world government would form in the wake of a horrendous war. National governments would be archived, like the british monarchy. All their power and militaries would have been taken from them.
As interplanetary war began to loom, the world government would build Absolom station using all available resources and all the space junk. When the pact is signed, all undead and rebelling machines would be exported to their appropriate planets.
The wizard Mefilenen will have discovered that 9th level magic classes are only available to children raised in a superstitious, non technical, environment. There will be what amounts to a national park system where monsters, schools of magic(literally), dungeons, and low tech craftsmanship are protected. Some will see this as a plot by dragons, but whatever. Some places are cursed with no cell service. Some of their major exports will be wands of cure light wounds, holy swords, and energy resistant armor plates you can fit onto space suits. Wish rings and resurrection unguent remain rare, powerful, items that are kept locked away like the nukes of reality.
The other stellar powers are scrambling to obtain an untainted source of such wonders. The Azlanti empire has gone as far as to terraform a planet, New Oz, were all technology is forbidden. They are seeding it with cloned elves, dragons, and unicorns.
The wizard Mefilenen will have discovered that 9th level magic classes are only available to children raised in a superstitious, non technical, environment. There will be what amounts to a national park system where monsters, schools of magic(literally), dungeons, and low tech craftsmanship are protected. Some will see this as a plot by dragons, but whatever. Some places are cursed with no cell service. Some of their major exports will be wands of cure light wounds, holy swords, and energy resistant armor plates you can fit onto space suits. Wish rings and resurrection unguent remain rare, powerful, items that are kept locked away like the nukes of reality.
The other stellar powers are scrambling to obtain an untainted source of such wonders. The Azlanti empire has gone as far as to terraform a planet, New Oz, were all technology is forbidden. They are seeding it with cloned elves, dragons, and unicorns.
Golarion being preserved as one planet sized wild life preserve. I LOVE IT! Absalom Station would still exist (as a place to put people who would advance the technology too far), but the planet itself would remain primitive.
I LOVE THIS IDEA!
In the simple sense, everything gets super complicated. As it stands, Starfinder is kinda taking the trope of 'single planet with more or less single philosophy, or maybe a couple semi-conflict ones'.
Here is an idea for the whole 'trope planet' thing. Golarion got the Nuclear War/Fallout treatment. Heck make the entire planet one large Mana Wasteland. That is why Absalom Station was created, it is a life raft/arch.
What if Starfinder is a parallel plane of Pathfinder universe, and whatever caused the Gap, Golarion is in the Pathfinder universe, and not in the Starfinder universe? A different parallel plane.
For my homebrew, since I'm publishing 3PP, and I cannot use the Pact Worlds setting... Golarion is not gone, it was never there...
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I started running SF with my group as a trial run to see how we liked it. We're only halfway into the Society Scenario: Into the Unknown (with some significant ad hoc additions). As long-time Pathfinder players, we like the feel of the mechanics, but, when it comes to science-fantasy settings, I readily admit that I prefer settings weighted more heavily toward the science end of things than the fantasy end. I'm playing around a lot, therefore, with different ideas for adapting the setting and enjoy the ideas people are sharing here.
I started our campaign with the idea of the Gap and missing Golarion in place, but am now exploring the idea others have shared that some kind of reality warping split occurred, a split that the PCs will eventually discover and have the potential to "correct". They will get to face the ethical dilemma of ending reality as they know it in order to reestablish the "true" reality, returning Golarion to the universe and filling in the Gap.
In preparation, I'm doing some world-building, advancing Golarion's timeline through the period of the Gap. I started with the year 4713 AR as a touchstone year. This is the year corresponding to 2013 when Paizo published the Reign of Winter AP. Using this date, I established parity between Earth's date of 1918 and Golarion's date of 4713. From there I have been developing timelines for both world's in tandem into the space age.