Can an ally provide the spell to be scribed?

[Covert Operator]

When you are crafting a magic item, your allies can provide the 'required components', per magic item creation rules in Core Rulebook. Does this option extend to scrolls (and wands/potions too I guess).

Can an ally provide the 'required component' of the prepared spell when crafting a Spell Completion or Spell Trigger item? Can you use this to (a) scribe any spell on your list even if you don't know it or (b) scribe spells that aren't even on your class' spell list?

[Hendelbolaf]

Yes, it says so under the general description for crafting magic items. What is confusing is that it also has a line under most of the subsequent craft item descriptions that seems to counter the general description.

General rule: “Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).“

Specific rule found under Arms, Armor, Wondrous, Potions, Scrolls, Staves, Wands, and Rods: “the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard)“

It is only left out of Rings, so are we to assume the first general rule only applies to Rings or is it to be interpreted by “creator must have prepared the spells” to mean that one method of preparation is to have another caster on hand that knows the spell?

I think it is the later and it is not specific to potions, spell trigger, and spell completion items. Those items just have to have the spell available at the time of crafting and that is not a requirement that can be disregarded by increasing the crafting DC by +5.

[UnArcaneElection]

I would have been inclined to forbid scribing a scroll of a spell you don't know(*), but apparently the Rules As Written for magic item creation don't forbid this(**).

(*)Or making another spell-{completion|trigger} item with it, or scribing it into your spellbook.

(**)This allows you to eventually get every spell in your spell list into your spellbook if you have an ability like Magus' Knowledge Pool.

[Covert Operator]

I'm not sure I follow. I thought that the 'ally provides the spell' rules only applied to items that had a specific spell requirement (e.g. Construction Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, Summon Instrument, 1,600 gp.)

Are you saying that this rule also applies to spell-completion items, spell trigger items, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, Scribing a Spell into a Spellbook?

What about the Spell-Scars Magus Arcana? Could another magus/wizard provide a spell (on the magus spell list) for the magus to scribe onto himself?

[Artificial 20]

Covert Operator wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. I thought that the 'ally provides the spell' rules only applied to items that had a specific spell requirement (e.g. Construction Requirements: Craft Wondrous Item, Summon Instrument, 1,600 gp.)

Are you saying that this rule also applies to spell-completion items, spell trigger items, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, Scribing a Spell into a Spellbook?

What about the Spell-Scars Magus Arcana? Could another magus/wizard provide a spell (on the magus spell list) for the magus to scribe onto himself?

Keep in mind that, while they feel similar, crafting magic items and adding spells to spellbooks are different activities that belong to different parts of the rules. What applies to crafting cooperatively does not automatically carry over to spellbooks.

The proper order of actions, as I understand it, is:

• Sorcerer knows Spell A, wizard would like to learn Spell A
  
• Sorcerer and wizard cooperatively craft a scroll of Spell A, with the sorcerer providing Spell A, and the wizard providing the Scribe Scroll feat
  
• The sorcerer leaves, their work done. Now possessing a scroll of Spell A, the wizard alone adds Spell A from the scroll to their spellbook
  

The same logic holds up with potions and wands, I believe. What matters is that the prerequisites are being met, including someone spending the spell needed for the item. Generally speaking you can't get "any" spell out of thin air, only those available to people who will work with you.

It's a little clunky, but works, and it would be a reasonable houserule to say you just write into the wizard's book and combine the time/cost of the scroll-scribing and book-writing into that activity.

For other abilities, that would depend on if they references the rules for crafting magic items. For example, here's the Spell-Scars text:

Spell-Scars Arcana wrote:

The magus can use special scar-based tattoos called spell-scars on his skin to cast or prepare spells, much like scrolls. He can cast a spell from a spell-scar exactly like casting from a scroll; the ink and scars vanish when the spell is cast. The magus can also prepare spells from his spell-scars without expending them, similar to a wizard using the Spell Mastery feat. The magus does not need to be able to see his spell-scar to use it. A magus has room on his skin for 18 total spell levels of spell-scars, which he can create using the rules for scribing scrolls (although they do not require the Scribe Scroll feat).

Emphasis is mine. The text states that he (the magus) can use the rules for scribing scrolls to add spell-scars to his skin. One could argue from a strictly-RAW perspective, this doesn't let anyone else use the scribe scroll rules to create spell-scars, only the magus. It's very on the fence though, and again houseruling others can help wouldn't be a big deal in my opinion, for what that's worth.

[Hendelbolaf]

The only difference between most magic items and potions, spell trigger, and spell completion items is that the later group MUST have the spell available at the time of crafting, while the former group can have the spell available or ignore that requirement with a higher craft DC for the item.

Like Artificial 20 said, do not mix scribing spells into a spellbook with crafting magic items such as scribing a scroll. They are totally different mechanics covered by different rules in different sections of the rulebook.

As for spell scars, I do not have much experience with them, but as quoted above, it appears to use the Scribe Scroll rules so it would follow with the rules as we have presented them here and a different caster or item could provide the spell for the magus if needed.

Hopefully that clears things up for you a bit.