Missing Classes


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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I haven't seen one of these threads in at least 3 days so here goes...

A few class concepts I think we could use, in the form of an ACG part II or otherwise:

1) A caster or pseudocaster with a go all day ray power. A take on the DnD warlock that is not the kineticist. After all, some people don't do psionics and can't understand how CON is a casting stat.

2) A martial buffer/leader. In 4th edition, which was generally god awful and way worse than pathfinder, there was a class for this. I think it was called the marshal, and it was a cool concept. Somebody who does battle ahouts, raises morale, etc. A non magical bard or cleric.

3) A life drainer. We've all seen this, weather in the form of a cool life draining ray (the sith from star wars), Rogue's decaying touch (X Men) or Warcraft's life drain spell. I feel like a life thief with 3/4 BaB and some fighting ability would be reqlly flavorful, either for a villain NPC or a cursed PC. Perhaps she could also drain magic from casters to activate temporary magical benefits.

4) Rogue/caster

The eldritch scoundrel does this well but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Zolanoteph wrote:
... but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.

Can you please elaborate ? Is there something inherent about archetypes that can't do what you want ?


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SlimGauge wrote:
Zolanoteph wrote:
... but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.
Can you please elaborate ? Is there something inherent about archetypes that can't do what you want ?

I agree that archetypes are as effective as classes. Twice I have needed a custom class to fill a story need in my campaign, and I took a class that nearly worked and invented a homebrew archetype that gave the remaining pieces I needed. See Ascending Oracle and Savage Spellslinger.

Currently, arcane casters do have an all-day ray power: Ray of Frost. Since it is a cantrip, it is pitifully weak, but it would be easy to design a wizard archetype where the power of a single cantrip increased with level.

For the martial buffer, the cavalier class can buff the party with teamwork feats and the Sensei archetype for monk has the Advice ability, which acts like bardic performance but is extraordinary rather than supernatural.

I don't understand the life drainer. Rogue in the X-Men temporarily steals memories and powers, which return to the subject later. I wouldn't call it a decaying touch--the mutant with a decaying touch was named Wither.

On the other hand, archetypes do have their limits, because they swap out a handful of abilities one by one. When Paizo wanted more changes, they created the hybrid classes from the Advanced Class Guide, and the magus from Ultimate Magic is pretty much a hybrid, too. You can invent your own hybrid class as easily as I invented my own archetypes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Spell thief as an arcane rogue? It’s not part of th OGL so some changes would be necessary, but it gives a bunch of changes which wouldn’t fit well with an archetype.

An arcane/divine mesh that uses a spellbook and gathers rituals and lost knowledge to transcribe divine magic into arcane tomes. Both spell lists are available but only counts as on the character’s spell list if they’ve transcribed the spell, uses the higher level of the spell currently exists on both lists (eg Plane Shift)

Some magus variations that focus on other schools of magic.

Liberty's Edge

Zolanoteph wrote:

I haven't seen one of these threads in at least 3 days so here goes...

A few class concepts I think we could use, in the form of an ACG part II or otherwise:

1) A caster or pseudocaster with a go all day ray power. A take on the DnD warlock that is not the kineticist. After all, some people don't do psionics and can't understand how CON is a casting stat.

2) A martial buffer/leader. In 4th edition, which was generally god awful and way worse than pathfinder, there was a class for this. I think it was called the marshal, and it was a cool concept. Somebody who does battle ahouts, raises morale, etc. A non magical bard or cleric.

3) A life drainer. We've all seen this, weather in the form of a cool life draining ray (the sith from star wars), Rogue's decaying touch (X Men) or Warcraft's life drain spell. I feel like a life thief with 3/4 BaB and some fighting ability would be reqlly flavorful, either for a villain NPC or a cursed PC. Perhaps she could also drain magic from casters to activate temporary magical benefits.

4) Rogue/caster

The eldritch scoundrel does this well but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.

Well, if Third Party materials are OK with your group, might I sggest taking a look at the newly-released New Paths Compendium: Expanded Edition hardcover from Kobold press?

The book contains (among other things) 12 new classes, including some of the ones you list! For instance:

For a caster or pseudocaster with an all day blast power, check out the Warlock class!

For a Rogue/caster, check out the Trickster class!


What I would like to see in 1st party (and would be willing to explore 3rd party for)

- Some kind of mechanic style class for Pathfinder.
- A damage-over-time class not unlike WoW's affliction worklock. Kineticist/Witch hybrid?
- The Oozemorph, but with more clearly defined rules and an ooze shape that isn't a weakness.
- A more socially acceptable take on the Synthesist.


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I really miss a dedicated necro-minionmancer class like the Dread Necromancer.


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Rosc wrote:

What I would like to see in 1st party (and would be willing to explore 3rd party for)

- Some kind of mechanic style class for Pathfinder.
- A damage-over-time class not unlike WoW's affliction worklock. Kineticist/Witch hybrid?
- The Oozemorph, but with more clearly defined rules and an ooze shape that isn't a weakness.
- A more socially acceptable take on the Synthesist.

The Spheres of Might Technician works for a mechanic class, and can be used as a Synthesist since one of the abilities you can pick up lets you build and get inside a big mech (there's an archetype that focuses in on that too, iirc). The Dueling Sphere offers a DOT-based playstyle by letting you stack bleed damage but I imagine you're looking for a more castery take on the concept with your examples.


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Zolanoteph wrote:
1) A caster or pseudocaster with a go all day ray power. A take on the DnD warlock that is not the kineticist. After all, some people don't do psionics and can't understand how CON is a casting stat.

It's magic! That's all it is. Kineticist is just straight up elemental magic ray user!

Zolanoteph wrote:
2) A martial buffer/leader. In 4th edition, which was generally god awful and way worse than pathfinder, there was a class for this. I think it was called the marshal, and it was a cool concept. Somebody who does battle ahouts, raises morale, etc. A non magical bard or cleric.

Marshal was 3.5. It was wretched.

Warlord was 4e, and it was probably the best thing in the entire edition. Other than fixing almost every problem in D&D. Granted, it had its own completely DIFFERENT set of problems, but 4e was a fantastic game at what it set out to do.

Zolanoteph wrote:

4) Rogue/caster

The eldritch scoundrel does this well but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.

We have, like, a bajillion of these already?

Bard, Inquisitor, Ranger, any of the casting Vigilante archetypes, Investigator, and Mesmerist are all basically this.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

I'd still like to see some way to do the old 1e triple classes - cleric/fighter/magic-user and fighter/magic-user/thief.

I'd also enjoy a divine rogue class. Inquisitor doesn't really fill that niche for me.

A base class version of Mystic Theurge would be nice.


Mathmuse mentions the Sensei but it can single class into battle herald if he variant multiclasses cavalier or he could dip a level. A cavalier who vmcs bard can as well. The battle herald is what we can expect from a martial buffer and an entry class would be nice like a Bard/Cavalier hybrid class.


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Zolanoteph wrote:

4) Rogue/caster

The eldritch scoundrel does this well but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.

Try this.


Zolanoteph wrote:

I haven't seen one of these threads in at least 3 days so here goes...

A few class concepts I think we could use, in the form of an ACG part II or otherwise:

1) A caster or pseudocaster with a go all day ray power. A take on the DnD warlock that is not the kineticist. After all, some people don't do psionics and can't understand how CON is a casting stat.

How is the Kineticist not this? Its not Psionics. (Paizo's pathfinder doesn't do psionics.) Heck is not even Psychic Magic (completely different from psionics)

Con was a casting stat for Warlocks back in 3.5 through the use of the hellfire warlock. But beyond that, you would say that Cha is a casting stat right? Undead use Cha very closely to how not undead people use Con to represent their life force. If you want a media example of con as a casting stat.. Look to Stranger Things, where El bleeds every time she uses her power, except for the times she doesn't.

Zolanoteph wrote:


2) A martial buffer/leader. In 4th edition, which was generally god awful and way worse than pathfinder, there was a class for this. I think it was called the marshal, and it was a cool concept. Somebody who does battle ahouts, raises morale, etc. A non magical bard or cleric.

You mean like the Cavalier? There is a handful of various archetypes of Fighter and Brawler that do similar things.

Zolanoteph wrote:


3) A life drainer. We've all seen this, weather in the form of a cool life draining ray (the sith from star wars), Rogue's decaying touch (X Men) or Warcraft's life drain spell. I feel like a life thief with 3/4 BaB and some fighting ability would be reqlly flavorful, either for a villain NPC or a cursed PC. Perhaps she could also drain magic from casters to activate temporary magical benefits.

This sounds to be an archetype of some kind.

Zolanoteph wrote:


4) Rogue/caster

The eldritch scoundrel does this well but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.

A class is not needed for something that can sufficiently be accomplished through an archtype. My own rule/view point on it, is that the class has to be able to be archetyped. If there is ever only a single version of the class it is not something to make into a class. The closest you could get is a PrC.

For Eldritch Thief kind of character that would be the Arcane Trickster currently.

If I was to say there is a class needed for something, it would be an artificer type character. You could have archtypes for different magical item types. Even one that is a non-magical archtype. Perhaps even a few that are siege engine types. Or even one that is like a personal trainer type that focuses on enhancing party members.


I think an artificer could just be an Occultist archetype, really. You can do the concept pretty well with just the base Occultist already with some minor re-fluffing.


Arachnofiend wrote:
I think an artificer could just be an Occultist archetype, really. You can do the concept pretty well with just the base Occultist already with some minor re-fluffing.

The Base occultist can't really even do some of the things its trying to do (The whole circle crap that doesn't really work). The best I can see with the idea of occultist is someone who uses magic items, but not someone who crafts things.

To begin with, the occultist has a very limited spell selection. Beyond the fact its a spont caster, its also a psychic caster. That alone puts a lot of limits as many spells from all the books (especially the player companions) are not on the occultist list. To make matters worse they get 1 spell from each level for one particular school each time they get an implement.

While you can craft magic items without the spell, you can't make wands, scrolls, potions, or staves without the spells. Spont casters have a hard time with this too. You also have no bonus on spellcraft to recover the +5 dc for each of the spells you don't have.

What I see becoming an artificer is either an Alternate class of alchemist or a hybrid class of wizard/alchemist. Because the Alchemist is basically an Artificer who does potions. Still some issues though with spell selection with their potions, but their spells are generally ones that are suppose to be used with potions.

From a General Artificer who is okay at making all kinds of magic items, an complex mundane mechanical items, you can then further divide it into new archtypes.

Wandwielder - Wields wands with great effect.
Scroll Master - Similar to the Wizards archetype, but better-ish. Really good at scrolls
Battle Smith - gains some ability to make temporary weapons or weapon/armor upgrades.
Wonderworker - Able to get some particular uses out of wonderous items.
Iounist - works with Ioun stones, has an Ioun wyrd familiar
Clockworker - Creates clockwork golems, good with repeating crossbows.
Crossbowman - Really good with crossbows
Gunner - Really good with firearms (sort of a magical gunslinger)
Trapsmith - Makes and disables traps
Mechanic - Helps in Vehicle Combat by repairing, upgrading and developing vehicles
Siegemaster - Primarily a siege weapon user
Runesmith - Focuses primarly on rune spells.
Toy Maker - Makes smaller golems
Golem Master - Makes a single larger golem that they continuously develop and improve.
Cyberdoc - Works on creating cybernetic implants and implanting them into people
grafter - Works on creating other kinds of grafts and attaching them onto people.

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle wrote:
Zolanoteph wrote:

I haven't seen one of these threads in at least 3 days so here goes...

A few class concepts I think we could use, in the form of an ACG part II or otherwise:

1) A caster or pseudocaster with a go all day ray power. A take on the DnD warlock that is not the kineticist. After all, some people don't do psionics and can't understand how CON is a casting stat.

2) A martial buffer/leader. In 4th edition, which was generally god awful and way worse than pathfinder, there was a class for this. I think it was called the marshal, and it was a cool concept. Somebody who does battle ahouts, raises morale, etc. A non magical bard or cleric.

3) A life drainer. We've all seen this, weather in the form of a cool life draining ray (the sith from star wars), Rogue's decaying touch (X Men) or Warcraft's life drain spell. I feel like a life thief with 3/4 BaB and some fighting ability would be reqlly flavorful, either for a villain NPC or a cursed PC. Perhaps she could also drain magic from casters to activate temporary magical benefits.

4) Rogue/caster

The eldritch scoundrel does this well but it's a freaking archetype. We need a class.

Well, if Third Party materials are OK with your group, might I suggest taking a look at the newly-released New Paths Compendium: Expanded Edition hardcover from Kobold press?

The book contains (among other things) 12 new classes, including some of the ones you list! For instance:

For a caster or pseudocaster with an all day blast power, check out the Warlock class!

For a Rogue/caster, check out the Trickster class!

There's always the Tinkerer in the New Paths Compendium: Expanded Edition hardcover:)


Omnius wrote:
Zolanoteph wrote:
2) A martial buffer/leader. In 4th edition, which was generally god awful and way worse than pathfinder, there was a class for this. I think it was called the marshal, and it was a cool concept. Somebody who does battle ahouts, raises morale, etc. A non magical bard or cleric.

Marshal was 3.5. It was wretched.

Warlord was 4e, and it was probably the best thing in the entire edition. Other than fixing almost every problem in D&D. Granted, it had its own completely DIFFERENT set of problems, but 4e was a fantastic game at what it set out to do.

Thing is, most people weren't looking for an MMO combat simulator when they bought a product labelled "Dungeons & Dragons" - they were looking for a roleplaying game...


Oh yeah, a martial buffer is the Spheres of Might Commander or just anyone with the Warleader Sphere (Commander does it the best, though). Exemplar Brawler works for Paizo stuff, too.

Silver Crusade

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I still want a class that revolves around something like a caster gun from Outlaw Star. (And, no, that's not the spellinger. The class I'm envisioning is NOT a casting class), or a class that uses magic armor to enhance their abilities (something like the Guyver, or Iron Man, though not necessarily with the same abilities). I'd still also like a hybrid class that incorporates Paladin and barbarian, synthesizing their flavors into something new.

dysartes wrote:
Thing is, most people weren't looking for an MMO combat simulator when they bought a product labelled "Dungeons & Dragons" - they were looking for a roleplaying game...

I don't know about you, but when I played 4e I did just as much roleplay as when I played 3.5/PF. Then again, back when I regularly played MMOs I did roleplay with those too.

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