So I'm playing as a Catfolk Slayer, and I've decided to focus on my claw natural attacks. Now I am aware of the rules:
You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Now, it says that OFTEN a creature has to give up a natural attack for each weapon, but I would be using unarmed strikes as well, technically. So my main question here is this: Say that my BAB is +10. During a full-attack action, would I get 4 attacks (2 natural claw attacks and 2 unarmed strikes) or only 2 attacks (either 2 unarmed strikes, or 2 claw attacks)?
Two. Unless you're a monk/brawler or take the multiweapon fighting feat and the appropriate penalties to your attack rolls.
You could take Ranger style as a Slayer Talent, and go down the Natural Weapon path culminating in Multi-weapon fighting
You can make four attacks using a full attack action. Two unarmed strikes (kicks or head butts) at +10 and +5 and two claw attacks (as secondary attacks using 1/2 Str Bonus) both at +5.
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
Thank you Gisher for finding that for me. I did a little more thinking, and I've come up with another question in the same field. Weapon Finesse states that natural attacks are considered light. In this regard, could I use 2 claw attacks in one turn, with one in my primary hand and one in my off hand?
If you only use Natural Weapons then you can get one attack with each (assuming they don't use the same limb) by using a full attack action. In such cases there isn't a main hand or off-hand; for the Natural Attacks, what matters is whether they are primary attacks or secondary attacks. Your Claws would be primary attacks so you would make both attacks at full BAB and add your full Str Mod to each.
Here is a more complete citation than I used before.
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
Ok. That explains everything for me. Thank you. This'll be my last question, since I'm starting to deviate from my original topic.
So lets say I take Cat's Claws:
Some catfolk have stronger and more developed claws than other members of their race, and can use them to make attacks. Catfolk with this racial trait have a pair of claws they can use as natural weapons. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage. This racial trait replaces natural hunter.
Now, if I take the Catfolk Exemplar feat, I can take Claws of the Beast from Aspect of the Beast, and the Sharp Claws manifestation.
You grow a pair of claws. These claws are primary attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage (1d3 if you are Small).
If you do not have the cat’s claws racial trait or the claws of the beast manifestation from the Aspect of the Beast feat, you gain the cat’s claws racial trait. If you have either the cat’s claws racial trait or the claws of the beast manifestation, your claw damage increases to 1d6.
Assuming I take this feat at level one, that would mean that I start with 4 natural claw attacks for 1d6 damage. Is this actually possible? It sounds too good to be true.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Assuming I take this feat at level one, that would mean that I start with 4 natural claw attacks for 1d6 damage. Is this actually possible? It sounds too good to be true.
I think the presumption is that a person with normal hands would grow a pair of claws on those hands and not grow two additional limbs with claws as your interpretation would seem to imply. So yes, it is too good to be true.
I think the presumption is that a person with normal hands would grow a pair of claws on those hands and not grow two additional limbs with claws as your interpretation would seem to imply.
I don't need to grow extra limbs. I was under the impression that the first set would apply to my arms, and the second set would apply to my legs. It doesn't specifically state where the claws go, and having claws on your hands and feet makes sense.
I think the presumption is that a person with normal hands would grow a pair of claws on those hands and not grow two additional limbs with claws as your interpretation would seem to imply.I don't need to grow extra limbs. I was under the impression that the first set would apply to my arms, and the second set would apply to my legs. It doesn't specifically state where the claws go, and having claws on your hands and feet makes sense.
Claws go on the hands (Or front two paws/feet of a Quadruped) and Talons go on the feet. This was clarified by a Dev, but I don't have the post on me.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
TrinitysEnd, it is an FAQ - Humanoids cannot put claws on feet.
One of the feats granting you claws would therefore be redundant.
TrinitysEnd, it is an FAQ - Humanoids cannot put claws on feet.
One of the feats granting you claws would therefore be redundant.
Thank you! And living up to your name! Knew it was somewhere, and I was never going to find it at my rate... looking at the wrong place...
Thank for the info everyone. At this point, it looks like going as a natural attack catfolk slayer is a bad idea, seeing as I won't really be able to take advantage of a full BAB, and an unarmed strike build isn't really what I'm going for. I might switch over to a two weapon fighter build and get a ton of attacks that way instead.
Aaaaaand then I found out about claw blades. That makes this much easier.
Aaaaaand then I found out about claw blades. That makes this much easier.
Yeeeep. That is the point of claw blades- they take your claws, and let you do normal TWF stuff instead for attacks, enhancements, etc.
But I am pretty sure that the claw blades go very far out of their way to make sure that the attacks are still 'claw attacks' rather than 'just a claw like weapon'.
the likely intention there is to make it so that you can still use the claw pounce feat.
Side note- claw pounce is why there is such a focus on catfolk in these claw discussions, Scott Wilhelm. A simple pounce method makes a lot of people look to see if they can turn into insane mad scientist that grow creepy, twisted limbs out of their cat's back just to get more claws.
@Lemeres: Exactly. Technically speaking, rather than dipping into other classes for more natural attacks, claw blades let me take advantage of my full BAB, and the TWF feat route will give me just as many attacks, if not more than the amount of natural attacks I can stack up. I don't think I'll be able to enchant them effectively, since technically the weapon comes in 5 pieces (10 for TWF), but I could find some magic items to work around that.
@Scott Wilhelm: Another good thing about switching from natural attacks to claw blades and TWF, is that I can get Improved Two-Weapon Feint down the line. If my GM allows it, there's even a Ranger Combat Style that I can nab with a Slayer talent that can give me that feat at 6th level, even if I don't meet the prerequisites, meaning that I can skip over the normal Two-Weapon Feint entirely.