Is this archetype viable? I know it isn't the best option out there but can they specialize in an area and become really good at one particular thing? If so, what is that?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They can make good non caster casters.
Go dwarf with high con and wis
Also take the sensei archetype to get bardic performance and wis to hit.
20 point buy: 8 str, 16+2 con, 12 dex, 10 int, 16+2 wis, 10-2 cha
take fast drinker at level 3 to get swift action ki points.
At level 4 replace slow fall with scorching ray as a qinggong monk ki power.
After that get more powers
At level 1 you have bardic performance
At level 3 you get wis to hit to use with stunning fist or grappling
At 4 you have a ki pool of 6 + your drunken ki for 6 casts of scorching ray a day
feats:
1: extra performance, monk bonus feat: improved grapple
3: fast drinker
later you can get a ring of ki mastery to use less ki and take deep drinker if you want. Dragon's breath is a good power to take but you can't take it until 11 as a chained monk, so you might be stuck with scorching ray and grappling for a while.
I'm totally new to this archetype so is the trick to use spell like abilities (quinnong monk) and just replenish those ki points with ale? Rinse and repeat? Can the drunken master not deliver much in the way of melee damage?
Instead of a dwarf would an archon blooded aasimar work, with that could also pick up the human FCB for the monk
If you want melee damage, play an Unchained Monk. That's just how it is - the cMonk chassis is ill suited to deal damage, and Drunken Master doesn't fix any of the cMonk's many problems. Sure, Drunken Ki is nice, since it's seven levels before an UnMonk can get a similar ability, but having all the ki in the world doesn't help if you either can't land your attacks.
The combination with Sensei (and, of course, Qinggong) is basically the "regular" way to play a Drunken Master.
If you want melee damage, play an Unchained Monk. That's just how it is - the cMonk chassis is ill suited to deal damage, and Drunken Master doesn't fix any of the cMonk's many problems. Sure, Drunken Ki is nice, since it's seven levels before an UnMonk can get a similar ability, but having all the ki in the world doesn't help if you either can't land your attacks.
The combination with Sensei (and, of course, Qinggong) is basically the "regular" way to play a Drunken Master.
My numbers indicate when flurrying the unchained monk kind of.... What the French call "le sucks". His to hit chance is not very good even though he does get an impressive number of attacks, what good is it if they don't have a great chance of landing?
|
My numbers indicate when flurrying the unchained monk kind of.... What the French call "le sucks". His to hit chance is not very good even though he does get an impressive number of attacks, what good is it if they don't have a great chance of landing?If you want melee damage, play an Unchained Monk. That's just how it is - the cMonk chassis is ill suited to deal damage, and Drunken Master doesn't fix any of the cMonk's many problems. Sure, Drunken Ki is nice, since it's seven levels before an UnMonk can get a similar ability, but having all the ki in the world doesn't help if you either can't land your attacks.
The combination with Sensei (and, of course, Qinggong) is basically the "regular" way to play a Drunken Master.
How so? The Unchained Monk takes 0 penalties to hit while flurrying and is Full BAB.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Seeing this and your other thread, I think you haven't properly read the unchained Monk.
I'd be happy to help you with your character, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
Drunken Ki is nice, since it's seven levels before an UnMonk can get a similar ability
Which ability would that be?
Ki Leech via the "Qinggong Power" Ki Power, selectable first at 10th level. Because the ki kost is 0, it can be maintained all day long, and can provide near infinite amounts of ki.
Seeing this and your other thread, I think you haven't properly read the unchained Monk.
I'd be happy to help you with your character, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
Perhaps you are right. I am fairly new, the only monk I have played is the Tetori. Your help would be greatly appreciated, thank you
I'm totally new to this archetype so is the trick to use spell like abilities (quinnong monk) and just replenish those ki points with ale? Rinse and repeat? Can the drunken master not deliver much in the way of melee damage?Well, what Drunken Master is for is replenishing your Ki fast. Having lots of Ki can make make you better in Melee. Just having Ki lets you bypass Damage Reduction.
Spending 1 Ki Point can give you an extra attack, give you a +4 AC or +20' Move. Those are great for combat. You can combine Drunken Master with Master of Many Styles. You don't get Flurry anymore, so no bonus attack, but If you say took Panther and Snake style feats, getting a Free Action Attacks whenever you Provoke Attacks of Opportunity by Moving out of threatened squares, and getting an Attack of Opportunity whenever that attack misses, That +20'Move and +4 AC would really come in handy. You could also be a Quinngong Drunken Master of Many Styles, and get a whole lot more options that would make you even better at melee.
Its sounding very appealing
My favorite Drunken Master mixed in Qingong/Sensei/Monk of the 4 Winds, but takes a little while to come online. Build for maximum Ki regain from drinking as above comments and buffs to Bard song. The entire build is based around giving Bard song and spamming your Ki points to buff the party: True Strike, Barkskin, Restoration, Improved Blind Fight, Step Up and Strike, Abundant Step, etc. for everyone in the party! And then at level 12 Monk of the 4 Winds gives you Slow Time to share with your party... holy shit. You are the ULTIMATE support.
Buy like 5 Tengu Drinking Jugs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/teng u-drinking-jug/) for infinite booze and just assume you are always Sickened as per hangover rules.
Perhaps you are right. I am fairly new, the only monk I have played is the Tetori. Your help would be greatly appreciated, thank youSeeing this and your other thread, I think you haven't properly read the unchained Monk.
I'd be happy to help you with your character, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
I'm just gonna take a leap of faith and say you confused cMonk and unMonk. cMonk = core Monk, unMonk = unchained Monk.
cMonk has indeed severe accuracy problems: All attacks in a flurry have a -2 to attack rolls, and the additional attacks at 8th and 15th level have an additional -5 and -10 penalty, respectively (as they mimic the improved and greater TWF feats). cMonk also has only medium BAB when not flurrying, because Paizo was too chicken to fix the glaring mistake WotC made.
unMonk on the other hand has full BAB, no penalty when flurrying, and the additional bonus attack at 11th level is done at full BAB.
UnMonk still has accuracy issues (as it has no accuracy increasing class features), but those are not crippling.
In short, if you do not plan on using an archetype that significantly alters the Monk's playstyle (like Zen Archer or Tetori), unMonk is definitely the much stronger class. And for the record (referencing your other thread), it's pretty easy to build an unMonk that outdamages Fighters, and it's even possible to outdamage an optimized Barbarian.
With that out of the way... do you want to be armed or unarmed? The former is generally stronger and, unless you're playing with Automatic Bonus Progression, also more accurate, but to properly make it shine on an unMonk, you need Ascetic Style+Ascetic Form.
Those two feats are from Weapon Master's Handbook and banned in PFS, are you allowed to use them?
Also, are you allowed to use Variant Multiclassing from Unchained?
Ya I also played a Tetori once, he truly was OP and my GM hated me. I had more envisioned an unarmed monk originally. Ya even compared to the barbarian and fighter the to to hit seems to be lower ad there are fewer ways to jack it up (from what I've seen).
You realize you haven't answered most of my questions, right? I can't really help you if I don't know what you're allowed to use.
1) Are you primarily interested in damage or other things?
2) What books can you use?
3) Is Variant Multiclassing allowed?
4) Regular items (regular wealth?), Automatic Bonus Progression, or something different?
5) Any notable things about the campaign? Like a primary type of enemy or something?
Yes, a unMonk's hit chance (without multiclassing, variant or otherwise, that is!!) will be lower then a Fighter's (past 4th level, up to then it's exactly the same), or Barbarian's. That does not mean it's a worse damage dealer.
Let's compare: 8th level, 22 strength, +1 weapon, boots of speed, weapon focus, and power attack. Target AC = 21 (the average of CR8 monsters).
Barbarian with Reckless Abandon lands an average of 2.6 attacks per round.
unMonk with Elbow Smash lands an average of 2.87 attacks per round without the bonus ki attack, and 3.57 with it.
Doesn't sound so bad, does it?
For comparison, a cMonk would be at 2.5/3.1, so he'd need to spend a ki every round to compete (and that's with worse damage per hit). Fighter with Greater Weapon Focus would land 2.15 attacks per round.
You realize you haven't answered most of my questions, right? I can't really help you if I don't know what you're allowed to use.
1) Are you primarily interested in damage or other things?
2) What books can you use?
3) Is Variant Multiclassing allowed?
4) Regular items (regular wealth?), Automatic Bonus Progression, or something different?
5) Any notable things about the campaign? Like a primary type of enemy or something?
Yes, a unMonk's hit chance (without multiclassing, variant or otherwise, that is!!) will be lower then a Fighter's (past 4th level, up to then it's exactly the same), or Barbarian's. That does not mean it's a worse damage dealer.Let's compare: 8th level, 22 strength, +1 weapon, boots of speed, weapon focus, and power attack. Target AC = 21 (the average of CR8 monsters).
Barbarian with Reckless Abandon lands an average of 2.6 attacks per round.
unMonk with Elbow Smash lands an average of 2.87 attacks per round without the bonus ki attack, and 3.57 with it.Doesn't sound so bad, does it?
For comparison, a cMonk would be at 2.5/3.1, so he'd need to spend a ki every round to compete (and that's with worse damage per hit). Fighter with Greater Weapon Focus would land 2.15 attacks per round.
Sorry about that.
1)Looking for damage primarily indeed
2)All paizo official, no third party
3)Yes
4)Yes WBL essentially and the usual gear
5)Two possible campaign options, one is Savage tide the other is Giantslayer. Not sure the primary enemies in ST, but certainly Giantslayer will have plenty of Giants.
Thanks for your time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now this I can work with!
Archetypes: There aren't many good archetypes for unMonk, so your choise is fairly limited. Invested Regent is cool if you have crazy stat rolls or high point buy. Perfect Scholar is interesting if you want some knowledge stuff for relatively low cost. My favourite is Windstep Master, but ask your GM if you can use Flying Kick while using your Swift Ki ability. Of course, the most obvious choice is not to use an archetype at all - unlike cMonk, unMonk doesn't need any to function well!
Apart from the archetype, your most important choice is probably ging to be which style chain/VMC you use.
The "normal" paths would be Dragon Style, Jabbing Style, Tiger Style, VMC Barbarian, or using none of the above.
Dragon Style is something like the default style - low investment (only two feats) and comes online very early (3rd level).
Jabbing Style depends a bit on the enemies - the higher the AC, the weaker it is. Also needs four feats and only becomes good at 9th, but can do a lot of damage against enemies with not-so-high AC values.
VMC Barbarian takes even more feats (every other feat, plus you probably want Extra Rage) and lowers your AC, but it comes online early (3rd level), and has some nice additional benefits (well, it's Rage), including a Rage Power at 11th level.
Tiger Style I've included more for completeness - it's actually slightly better then all the above for pure damage, but incorporates all the other style's weaknesses (4 feats, lowers AC, and doesn't really do anything before 9th level).
Styleless, i.e. not using a style and instead grabbing assorted feats like Power Attack and Possessed Hand, is a also possible - it's not that much weaker and allows greater flexibility.
My favourite one though is VMC Magus: High feat investment, but what you gain is oh so sweet. At 3rd level you get the ability to enchant your weapons, very nice even though it's only a few times per day. It get's better when you select Ki Arcana as your Magus Arcana at 7th level, and you can grab some awesome stuff with Extra Arcana: Accurate Strike allows all your attacks to resolve against touch AC (what was that about Monk's accuracy?), while Flamboyant Arcana provides soem amazing defense. Both are fairly limited in daily uses (and the former eats up your swift actions), but when you grab Ki Leech as your 10th level Ki power, they become crazy good!
A human could combine VMC Magus with Dragon Style, but going styleless and just grabbing Power Attack should be enough.
Also of note is that your Arcane Pool scales of Int, but you don't need to care about it - with Ki Arcane, your combined pool will be plenty big anyway.
For comparison, on a sample character with regular items and the bonus ki attack, attacking an average CR12 monster, the style's DPR values are as follows: Dragon Style 129, Jabbing Style 133, VMC Barb 128, Tiger Style 137, no style 129, VMC Magus 150. Armed would be at 163 with Ascetic Style, or at 143 without. If you're really interested I can show the presumptions used, but these values should be enough for now to see that all of these paths do plenty of damage (said sample enemy would have 160 HP).
Also, even though I disagree on some aspects, there's a pretty nice and very encompassing unMonk guide; with the repective thread being here.