What is the best control spell in the game to magical lineage, not restricted to any class.
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Usually people do dazing fireball...I'm currently on a research project for flurry of snowballs...but the base damage is rather low.
Both those are decent, but not rather as crippling as I imagined.
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Infernal healing + extend spell = 20 hitpoint healing 1st level spell slot.
This spell is best in a wand. It’s an out of combat spell anyway. 2minutes and two charges is a much better investment than a spell slot, fear, trait, and one minute.
I think you'll probably find that
Dazing Chain Lightning and Dazing Caustic Eruption are both fairly dominating but they both require a spell level that is rarely reached.
No love for a persistent glitterdust?
If you want the most powerful spells of each list you're going to find people naming high level spells.
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Dazing Acid Pit seems like a LoL Situation for the PC who casts it.
But really it all depends on what level you're going too and what level you want the build to come online.
If you are going to 15+ you have to consider Spell Perfection and higher level spells but if you are only going to say Level 12. You're looking more at Level 1-4 spells.
What is the Level range?
Also do not look down on Rime spells. Snowball, Flurry of Snowballs, Ice Spears are all nice control spells when Rime is factored in. A lesser RIme rod is 3k and is a very nice investment. Heck, I usually find myself LOading Rime Frigid Touch into my Spellstoring armors and weapons just because Entangled + Staggered is Brutal.
Up to level 20 range
If you want the most powerful spells of each list you're going to find people naming high level spells.
Indeed this is what I am looking for
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Extended Time Stop is fun.
And, for the record, the longest you would go without benefiting from the trait (for a level 9 spell on a spontaneous caster) would be *only* 85% of your career.
I'd make an argument for Dazing Ball Lightning. It's got a DC increaser in the spell itself, gives you options for your action economy, shuts down everything not immune to electricity, and can be metamagiced down to a 4th level spell if you are willing to pay for it, even before Spell Perfection raises its beautiful face for you to kiss.
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Infernal healing + extend spell = 20 hitpoint healing 1st level spell slot.This spell is best in a wand. It’s an out of combat spell anyway. 2minutes and two charges is a much better investment than a spell slot, fear, trait, and one minute.
Infernal healing works well with a wand.
But please consider that, if you are a spontaneus caster, you can convert any spell slot of level 1-9 to 20 hitpoints. It is a investment that keeps its relevance from level 1-20 and you will properbly use it once or twice every session.
Greater dispel magic
There are many spells to make dazing hungry darkness is brutal. No save 60 ft radius, damage every turn, aunt con damage. High level though.
This does require magical linage.
If the spell doesn't come with an attached save then Dazing attaches a will save.
Hence its better to attach a reflex save, since its most commonly the weakest save.
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I feel it could be helpful to remember you all something about the initial question... see the bolded part:
What is the best control spell in the game to magical lineage, not restricted to any class.
Anything you attach dazing to becomes a control spell.
Well, that question is slightly strange.
Magical Lineage is a trait, so you take it once and only once at level 1.
Then, you cannot change the spell it applies to once you have picked it.So, to answer you, could you explain us first what good would be to pick a level 9 spell with this traits, and spend 95% of your game gaining absolutly no benefit from it because you just cannot cast the spell it applies to yet?
There's at least four answers I can think of:
1) Flavor. Their grandfather was Bigsby, and he didn't exactly do much low-level work.
2) They're starting at a high level.
3) They're really planning ahead, and are fine with losing out on a single trait for 95% of the game.
4) The Additional Traits feat.
Bigsby was infact my grandfather
Extended Time Stop is fun.
And, for the record, the longest you would go without benefiting from the trait (for a level 9 spell on a spontaneous caster) would be *only* 85% of your career.
I like this a lot, what do others think of this? I'm fairly new to PF, is this a powerful play?
I dunno if it's best but a friend told me about Shocking Grasp through Magical Lineage.
Yeah that seems ho-hum but I brought it to him after a player gave me a character sheet with that assigned. Said character was a Magus.
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Bigsby was infact my grandfatherWell, that question is slightly strange.
Magical Lineage is a trait, so you take it once and only once at level 1.
Then, you cannot change the spell it applies to once you have picked it.So, to answer you, could you explain us first what good would be to pick a level 9 spell with this traits, and spend 95% of your game gaining absolutly no benefit from it because you just cannot cast the spell it applies to yet?
There's at least four answers I can think of:
1) Flavor. Their grandfather was Bigsby, and he didn't exactly do much low-level work.
2) They're starting at a high level.
3) They're really planning ahead, and are fine with losing out on a single trait for 95% of the game.
4) The Additional Traits feat.
Do you mean Bigby? There is no 's.' These kids today. Harumph.
First:
You can take Magical Lineage and Wayang spell hunter with the feat additional traits. Retrain the feat when you want to change the spells. PFS legal.
Second.
Allow me to put a simple vote in for magic missile. With honorable mentions for fireball and snapdragon.
Why?
Because you take dazing at 3rd level - and if you are an exploiter wizard you are doing 3 dazing magic missiles at 3rd level, with a DC of 18-20 will save.
It continues to scale well. You take quicken and as a 6th level spell you can cast quickened, dazing magic missiles. Followed by heightened dazing magic missiles. Or dazing, empowered magic missiles.
There are many spells to make dazing hungry darkness is brutal. No save 60 ft radius, damage every turn, aunt con damage. High level though.
This does require magical linage.
This may be the one. Certainly leading contender.
This may be the one. Certainly leading contender.
There are many spells to make dazing hungry darkness is brutal. No save 60 ft radius, damage every turn, aunt con damage. High level though.
This does require magical linage.
You realise giving a no save spell Dazing means it gets a save attached to it...
I would say shocking grasp, since intensified shocking grasp, since it's got such a huge effect on the magus that it's probably the single use of magical lineage that affects a class the most.
You realise giving a no save spell Dazing means it gets a save attached to it...This may be the one. Certainly leading contender.
There are many spells to make dazing hungry darkness is brutal. No save 60 ft radius, damage every turn, aunt con damage. High level though.
This does require magical linage.
That's news to me, thank you
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They still get a save, will but the damage, 1/2 speef across 120ft, and con damage. Then stuck there if they fail. This likely results in multiple saves.
It is even more powerful if darkness is run correctly, which is rare.
In darkness you are effectively blind. Thus requiring acrobatics dc10 to move full speed. Poor visibility means each square cost two squares of movement.
In not actually claiming this is the best but its really fun.
Finding something targets ref but controls on a save is best ideally sr no. I'm still looking for my top choice.
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If you're looking at high level spells I wouldn't go past 6th. With that, magical lineage and quicken spell you get up to a 9th level spell slot.
In particular chains of light paralyzes the target and prevents them using any sort of escape spell. It's not mind-affecting, and many big creatures have poor dex and so not amazing reflex saves. SR no. Throw a persistent chains of light and failing that a quickened one and you get a very good chance of making your enemy very killable. Immunity to paralysis is the only way of stopping it, and even that won't stop the dimensional travel block.
If you're looking at high level spells I wouldn't go past 6th. With that, magical lineage and quicken spell you get up to a 9th level spell slot.
In particular chains of light paralyzes the target and prevents them using any sort of escape spell. It's not mind-affecting, and many big creatures have poor dex and so not amazing reflex saves. SR no. Throw a persistent chains of light and failing that a quickened one and you get a very good chance of making your enemy very killable. Immunity to paralysis is the only way of stopping it, and even that won't stop the dimensional travel block.
Pretty awesome. Wish it was more aoe. One thing is though they do get a save every round. Would the persistent still carry on successive rounds or does it only apply to the initial round? And this would be a persistent metamagic rod correct?
Is Enervation basically garbage? Even when Empowered and Maximized?
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For me anything past character level 12 in PF, 14 in D&D 3.x is theorycraft so far. I haven't seen enervation be useful at those levels in PF (unlike D&D where negative levels were nastier). Analysing it at higher levels though - enervation is a single target ranged touch attack (miss chances apply) to which SR applies and which a reasonable number of creatures are immune to. The range is short. Unmodified it's just sad, with metamagic it can impose a substantial penalty. It's not a useful damage spell against anything even close to your level.
It could be a useful tool in the toolbox but it's definitely not something to focus on.
I get metamagic rods up to +1 but use feats for larger metamagics. Maybe I'm just bad at saving up.
Persistent spell applies to all saves against a spell, not just the first.
If an AoE spell is what you're after then chain lightning is a reasonable starting point. With dazing spell and a couple of elemental spell metamagic rods you can disable a group if you like, though SR applies and poor judgement (or an enemy who tries to deceive you) on which element to use could be a problem,.
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Is Enervation basically garbage? Even when Empowered and Maximized?
It isn't garbage, but you need to know who to use it on. The best target is anything that counts its level for the purpose of damage (Swashbucklers, Casters who favor spells that up the damage per casterlevel, etc). This means it is mostly useful versus creatures with class levels (so other humanoids), and especially casters. At higher levels it will require metamagic to make sure the lowered casterlevel actually makes a difference.
Enervation isn't a blanket coverage spell though, so I wouldn't specialize in it (maybe just keep one prepared in case of a juicy target).
For me anything past character level 12 in PF, 14 in D&D 3.x is theorycraft so far. I haven't seen enervation be useful at those levels in PF (unlike D&D where negative levels were nastier). Analysing it at higher levels though - enervation is a single target ranged touch attack (miss chances apply) to which SR applies and which a reasonable number of creatures are immune to. The range is short. Unmodified it's just sad, with metamagic it can impose a substantial penalty. It's not a useful damage spell against anything even close to your level.
It could be a useful tool in the toolbox but it's definitely not something to focus on.
I get metamagic rods up to +1 but use feats for larger metamagics. Maybe I'm just bad at saving up.
Persistent spell applies to all saves against a spell, not just the first.
If an AoE spell is what you're after then chain lightning is a reasonable starting point. With dazing spell and a couple of elemental spell metamagic rods you can disable a group if you like, though SR applies and poor judgement (or an enemy who tries to deceive you) on which element to use could be a problem,.
A lot of knowledge here. With Chain lightning if I use Daze with it and the enemy succeeds on there reflex saving throw for half damage would they still be dazed? Is there ever a separate saving throw for the Dazing effect?
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Dazing uses the spells save if it grants one
And grants a will save if it doesn’t.